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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #31
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    We even had Midtown posting articles by no-nothing American journalists claiming that...
    Fabrizio: Make no mention of me. It is totally unnecessary to make your point. Let's keep the peace.

  2. #32

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    The other part of this is that the US is very much anti-Italian and likes to deride Italy.

    If this verdict occurred in Germany, Britain or Israel, for example, the US press would accept it.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    The other part of this is that the US is very much anti-Italian and likes to deride Italy.
    True. (Although there is also a very knowlegable and sophisticated group of Americans that find Italy's culture and way-of-life superior in many ways.)

    And notice too, that the European press has not come out in favour of Knox.

    -----

    My point is that every country and culture is different and in Italy's case sometimes vastly different.

    Just from that article posted: “It’s a strange case to American ears” , "in the context of Italy’s complicated judicial system, and its stark differences with the legal process in the United States", "in a sharp departure from American jurisprudence", "“In the United States, character evidence does not come to play in the trial unless the defendant puts it in play,” Mr. Fletcher said. .... The prosecution can’t come into court and say my guy is a bad guy....". "In another departure from American law..."

    Also I can't tell enough how important behavior is here. I can't believe no one told this girl that she was acting like an idiot in court ... passing out chocolates, putting her head down sleeping, cart-wheels at the police station... my God girl...in Italy that alone would be enough to sway a judge.

    --
    Last edited by Fabrizio; December 6th, 2009 at 12:53 PM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    If for some reason you see that as a harsh reply (post #26) ... then I truly apologise. But you'll have to excuse me for not getting it. I don't know how else to answer your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo-ny View Post
    Ablarc's reply was to a post that has since been deleted.
    Yeah, Fabrizio, I was actually defending you. You got thoroughly cussed out by your nemesis (you-know-who); he even included the f-word. Alonzo apparently deleted it, and the rest of the post as well.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    Inadvertent.



    Btw, of course I know what you'd think if you got accused of something you didn't do! It's just that it seems that lamentable situation is more possible in Italy, under the rules.

  5. #35

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    I really don't know.

    It's a very strange situation here... very mixed. Lot's of little things: I don't know about the US but here you can be stopped on the street and be asked for ID and questioned for no reason. Your car can be stopped and searched as a matter of course. Judges have an incredible amount of power. You are considered quilty until proven innocent. Trials take for ever and ever. It's a mess.

    But then again: it would be interesting to compare our incarceration rates with yours. I'll bet ours are a fraction....

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    The other part of this is that the US is very much anti-Italian and likes to deride Italy.

    If this verdict occurred in Germany, Britain or Israel, for example, the US press would accept it.
    This is circumstantial at best since most Americans have a romantic fascination with Italy. It is a country glorified in US classrooms from an early age for it's history of art and architecture, it's Roman roots, and it's cultural leanings in food and leisure. The same cannot be said about Germany or Britain.

    Still, it's hard to look past the anti-American sentiment that perverted the Italian media and public on this trial.

  7. #37
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The silly girl couldn't keep her stories straight.

    Short term memory loss? That hash-laced pot can be powerful.

    Plus, her accusation against her boss (hmmm, blame the black guy defense?) really puts her in a bad light. Once she played that angle everything about her seems dicey. Couple that with the lies about the cell phones (which seems to have been constructed to create an alibi for her and the Italian boyfriend) any jury would consider her testimony to be untrustworthy.

    And why the singular outrage at the verdict against Ms. Knox? What about concern for the Italian boyfriend, who by most accounts was with with the young lady during the entire time when Ms. Kercher was being killed, and who was also found guilty. If Amanda is innocent then so is he, right?

    Only the pretty white girl gets the attention of the media.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebryan View Post
    ...most Americans have a romantic fascination with Italy. It is a country glorified in US classrooms from an early age for it's history of art and architecture, its Roman roots, and its cultural leanings in food and leisure.
    Actually, don't most Americans think Italians are cosa nostra?

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    And why the singular outrage at the verdict against Ms. Knox?
    American media.

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    What about concern for the Italian boyfriend, who by most accounts was with with the young lady during the entire time when Ms. Kercher was being killed, and who was also found guilty. If Amanda is innocent then so is he, right?

    Only the pretty white girl gets the attention of the media.
    Italian boyfriend's white too, right?

    (And actually, he's as pretty as she is.)

  10. #40

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    Rafaelle Sollecito does make for a good photograph:





    And like most Italian men, he knows how to tie a scarf.



    They both have an intense Franco Zeffirelli thing going.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOfgaSvKz8

  11. #41

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    ^ They should let them out and put them in a movie.

    It would make millions.

  12. #42
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    The silly girl couldn't keep her stories straight.

    Short term memory loss? That hash-laced pot can be powerful.
    Of course it looks suspicious that Knox didn't keep her stories straight, but the evidence against her is...where?
    First she says she was at her boyfriend's, then she was in the house hearing the screams...she looks guilty at this point, but then I say to myself, the motive is...what?

    I don't buy for one second the whole drug-crazed attack, or some satanic ritual angle...smoking hash and pot wouldn't lead to a mental state that facilitates murdering someone in cold blood, or sexually attacking them. It would more likely chill you out a bit from whatever anger you had been feeling.

    I read that one of the elements of the prosecution's case was Knox's lack of emotion after the discovery of the body but even that wasn't really sustained by any evidence.

    Plus, her accusation against her boss (hmmm, blame the black guy defense?) really puts her in a bad light. Once she played that angle everything about her seems dicey. Couple that with the lies about the cell phones (which seems to have been constructed to create an alibi for her and the Italian boyfriend) any jury would consider her testimony to be untrustworthy.
    I agree that is very suspicious but there is something very important to remember: no evidence at all was produced to prove Knox had been in the room where Kercher's body was found. Not a single fingerprint or piece of forensic evidence was found in the room from either Knox or her boyfriend.
    But Rudy Guede's fingerprints were all over Kercher's room. Maybe I do not have all the facts, I am new to this topic before today...how does the prosecution explain this?

    ..most Americans have a romantic fascination with Italy. It is a country glorified in US classrooms from an early age for it's history of art and architecture, its Roman roots, and its cultural leanings in food and leisure.
    I agree with this. I think it's wrong to suggest there is some kind of anti-Italian attitude in the USA. In classrooms, but also everywhere else in America, we have a love of Italy and all things Italian. A simply HUGE amount of Americans trace some ancestry back to Italy so you have a lot of ethnic Italian pride everywhere. A universally praised cuisine, high culture like opera, fashion, etc.
    There are really more things in American media about Italy that are positive I think, than negative.
    The cosa nostra thing is from a distant time...Americans today see Italy in terms of fashion, art, history, etc.

    This case, however, does put the Italian judicial system in a very negative light. Mind you, that's not to say things about the American system are much better.

    Italian boyfriend's white too, right?
    He's very pasty white, but I don't think very good looking at all. Just sayin'

    ^ Harsh. (And now an edited post.)
    I removed the F-bomb very soon after I posted it. The rest was basically asked for. And thanks for your moderation, but we have quite enough of that around here.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    ...no evidence at all was produced to prove Knox had been in the room where Kercher's body was found. Not a single fingerprint or piece of forensic evidence was found in the room from either Knox or her boyfriend.

    There is plenty of evidence. But one must decide if it is credible or not. I believe, as do most here, that the evidence is credible. From Newsweek:

    "Even if Kercher had been murdered in Philadelphia instead of Perugia, in reality little would likely turn out differently. The evidence may even get more scrutiny in Italy. So far, 10 judges have reviewed the prosecution's case over the last year. All 10 have agreed that there is enough credible evidence to keep moving forward based solely on the merit of the forensics".

    "Neither suspect has a credible alibi for the night of the murder, and both told a variety of lies about that night. No one has confessed to the murder, and Guede's testimony this weekend is not expected to shed any light on what really happened. Still, the prosecution maintains that it has enough to convict both Knox and Sollecito. Among the most damning evidence against Sollecito is his DNA on the metal clasp of the bra that was cut from Kercher after she died. Maresca also points out that credible witnesses have shattered Sollecito's alibi for the night of the murder. Sollecito says he was home that night working on his computer, but specialists have testified that his computer was dormant for an eight-hour period the night of Kercher's murder. Sollecito's attorneys contend that their client lied out of confusion and fear".

    "Key forensic evidence against Knox includes her footprint in blood in the hallway outside Kercher's room. There are also mixed traces of Knox's DNA and Kercher's blood on the fixtures in the bathroom the girls shared. And a knife was found in Sollecito's apartment with Knox's DNA on the handle and what the prosecution believes is Kercher's DNA in a groove on the blade. None of these pieces have been thrown out of the 10,000-page dossier of evidence against the two. All will be presented to the jury for their consideration. Defense attorneys for Knox, who at one time admitted to being at home when the murder took place, dismiss the forensic evidence as unreliable."

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/192370/page/2

    Re: DNA... people forget that DNA evidence is a new science, not very long ago murder cases were put together without such evidence... the lies, the false alibis... accusing some one else... they would all be enough to add up to an involvement of this.

    --
    Last edited by Fabrizio; December 6th, 2009 at 02:51 PM.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Actually, don't most Americans think Italians are cosa nostra?
    A romanticized notion nonetheless--the glorified mafias on the US continent have always been the Italian ones (no need to even bring in the cinematic references here, it's obvious). Even if the Chinese, Russian, and Mexican incarnations hold a true seat of power, Americans have long fascinated about the inner workings of the Italian household.
    Last edited by Ebryan; December 6th, 2009 at 03:06 PM.

  15. #45
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Like I said, no evidence at all was produced to prove Knox had been in the room where Kercher's body was found. Not a single fingerprint or piece of forensic evidence was found in the room from either Knox or her boyfriend.

    A post about hallways and bathroom fixtures doesn't dispute the fact.


    Key forensic evidence against Knox includes her footprint in blood in the hallway outside Kercher's room. There are also mixed traces of Knox's DNA and Kercher's blood on the fixtures in the bathroom the girls shared.
    What? Do I have to address that? Like a shared bathroom wouldn't have DNA from Knox? What about the room where the body was actually found?
    Yeah.

    Nothing in the Newsweek article contradicts my statement. The bathroom and hallway? naturally they contain Knox's traces. She lived there.

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