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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #61
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    "...a woman's magazine even...woooo"

    You are making my point. It's different culture.
    That's the only point? How edifying!

    My point was who cares what kind of magazine it is, and so what if the pictures were taken. You made too much of them.

  2. #62

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    ^ Uh ....noooooo.... most likely, the Italian court made too much of them.

    (he still doesn't get it.)

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    Just so we know?
    Should I post something about Leonard Peltier here too? baseball statistics?

    Lofter posts an article that at one point questions if anti-Amercanism played a role in this case. (Maria Cantewell and others feel it has BTW).

    To that I posted:

    "I ... think the article too readily pushes aside anti-Americanism" ... "the Italian left despises the US... so I can just imagine the thrill of being able to send an American to jail."

    Just to show that I am not talking out of my azz, I posted a couple of examples that could back up my statement adding: "Maybe those Italian judges are getting their revenge" and posted the artcle about Balardini.

    Balardini upon her return to Italy, after getting a 43 year sentence at the hand of American judges, and serving 17, received a hero's welcome by the government and Italian people. Although Amercans know nothing about this case, it was huge here.

    And perhaps shedding some light on how there could be resentment among a certain class in our judicial system, the Italian people and politicians with regard to the Amanda Knox case. I believe anti-Americanism could have played a part.... it's not a far-fetched idea and these two cases could be a basis for it.

    Now Midtown, would you tell us again: why should I not have posted about Balardini and Parlanti? Thanks.

    ( Ablarc... it's tough)

    --
    Last edited by Fabrizio; December 6th, 2009 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #63
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post

    ... so what if the pictures were taken. You made too much of them.
    It showed that they were clueless when it came to things Italian. The girl version of The Ugly American. Which also seems to be indicative of Amanda.

    The sisters were wearing short shorts in the photo in front of the scene of the murder, which they also wore to the court house. Now to an American, who is now used to seeing college-aged girls wearing hoodies and flip flops to the White House, such casualness might seem totally in order. But in a country where shorts aren't advisable when entering a church as a tourist (it shows great disrespect) and women are advised to cover their hair (oy ... just like in those burka-loving countries) it creates an unsympathetic image.

    "So what?" someone might say ... except that particular someone would not be the person who matters and who is viewing and judging the behavior.

    IMO Knox was around when the murder took place. Which, as has been pointed out -- and since she chose to try and hide her involvement (however limited that might have been) -- makes her at the very least an accomplice.

    Rule One: Lie to the cops and you're in deeper merda than ever.

    Did Amanda do it? Did she stick the knife in? Ask Ms. Kercher. She knows.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    "...a woman's magazine even...woooo"

    You are making my point. It's different culture. The photos by the way were also harshly criticized in Britain as well. Is the criticizm silly? Beside the point? You be the judge. But in the meantime... some advice: I wouldn't do it here.

    Just trying to be helpful.

    ---

    Why Parlanti? Why Balaradini? Just so you all know.
    A fashion crime...punishable by 26 years in Italian prison.

  5. #65
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    I'm sorry fabrizio,
    this little play-by-play is cute, but misapplied:
    Lofter posts an article that at one point questions if anti-Amercanism played a role in this case. (Maria Cantewell and others feel it has BTW).

    To that I posted:

    "I ... think the article too readily pushes aside anti-Americanism" ... "the Italian left despises the US... so I can just imagine the thrill of being able to send an American to jail."

    Just to show that I am not talking out of my azz, I posted a couple of examples that could back up my statement adding: "Maybe those Italian judges are getting their revenge" and posted the artcle about Balardini.
    I never questioned you about Balardini. We understand anti-Americanism in Europe. You were mistaken to group my questions about Parlanti with the post on Balardini.

    My question mentions Parlanti only, and asks for clarification:

    Tell us why we should be examining someone named Parlanti. The article you link to is rather long so perhaps you could save the forum some time and tell us exactly what is the relevance. Is his case similar somehow? Does it shed light on the case of Amanda Knox? Or is it just to say again, American justice sucks too? Because we know.
    I think this is a fair, and civil, request for clarification. The link to Parlanti did indeed lead to an article which not all of us might have time to sit and read completely, so I respectfully asked for a brief summary and basically agreed that American justice is jacked up too... I was not trying to be confrontational with you. If you haven't the time to write a sentence or two about the article, just copy-paste the relevant part within your post.
    It isn't like you prefaced it at all meaningfully. On the contrary...stuff like this:
    And while we are at it: let's read up on fellow Tuscan Carlo Parlanti who is still held in a California prison... for absolutely nothing:
    followed by a link,
    might be interpreted as less a desire to enlighten and more like a tit-for-tat kind of thing that we've seen so much...listen to the tone...it becomes tiresome and is more likely to dissuade a person from clicking the link than anything else.

    Now Midtown, would you tell us again: why should I not have posted about Balardini and Parlanti? Thanks.
    Let me say it again to be absolutely clear. I was asking for a summary on the relevance of Parlanti. Nobody questioned about Balardini or doubted that anti-Americanism or revenge play their roles in these things.

    Do you understand now?

    ( Ablarc... it's tough)
    Well, it doesn't have to be, if we can agree to stop putting words in each other's mouths, OK?

    Can we both try harder to discern each other's true perspective? I would like that and things can be more peaceful.

    Moving forward,

    I think infoshare, ablarc, myself and others are less curious about this stuff, and more curious as to what exactly is the evidence that makes her guilty without a doubt in your appraisal:
    The evidence in the case points to that without a doubt.
    In the interest of having a "meaningful discussion", try to elaborate on the matter regarding the "standards of evidence" required in a criminal trial - and how you personally believe they were met in this case.
    I just don't think you have been able to do that. Lot's of stuff about different cultures and such, and we get that, we do,
    but the hard evidence, DNA or otherwise, is very thin.

    That's my position. Let's please both kill the unpleasantness...the "he just doesn't understand" stuff. It goes nowhere. You'd be surprised what people can understand when you talk to them instead of down at them.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; December 7th, 2009 at 12:20 AM.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    Rafaelle Sollecito does make for a good photograph:






  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    That's my position. Let's please both kill the unpleasantness...the "he just doesn't understand" stuff. It goes nowhere. You'd be surprised what people can understand when you talk to them instead of down at them.

    My posts on this thread have been, IMHO, perfectly on topic, proper and civil. I have no reason to change a word. The thread is here for all to read and come to their own conclusion about who is doing what etc. If you have a problem with my posts, please contact a moderator.

    And BTW: The Parlanti article is short. Shorter than many full articles posted here. Cut the crap. Rather than giving us constant feed-back on your opinions of how I'm posting, contact a moderator and take it up with them.



    ---

    Codex: the Harry Potter thing has been talked about in the press... infact it seems to be a reason why Amanda Knox was attracted to him. He's a doctors son, comes from a well-to-do southern Italian family.

    --
    Last edited by Fabrizio; December 7th, 2009 at 11:00 AM.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post

    Codex: the Harry Potter thing has been talked about in the press... infact it seems to be a reason why Amanda Knox was attracted to him. He's a doctors son, comes from a well-to-do southern Italian family.

    --
    Yes, but is he worth £30 million ($45 million USD) like Harry (aka Daniel Radcliffe)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/5...Rich-List.html

    Now that's real magic.

  9. #69

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    ^ Nice link, but the article is too long. Would you please provide a brief summary?

    Only joking... (but I don't know how else to deal with this nonesense.)


    Thank you for the link... it is fascinating the weath that J.K.Rowling has created for many people besides herself. Yes, truly magic... and I imagine on her part, lots of hard work and talent.

  10. #70

    Post Amanda Knox

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    I think infoshare, ablarc, myself and others are less curious about this stuff, and more curious as to what exactly is the evidence that makes her guilty without a doubt in your appraisal:
    I just don't think you have been able to do that. Lot's of stuff about different cultures and such, and we get that, we do,
    but the hard evidence, DNA or otherwise, is very thin.
    I would just like to interject here with a side point if I may.

    I think it is possible to raise this sort of “main contention” question; without the question itself becoming sort of a thread discussion party-pooper.

    If as a debating tactic someone is attempting to the dodge the question by diverting the subject or otherwise dissembling the issue, that is another matter, but little in the way of any possible truth or cogency will emerge from the exchange. And, thus the reason for any diversionary tactic I suppose.

    That being said, for an internet forum like this, its’ all good, at the end of the day there is plenty of useful knowledge that is gained from the exchange.

    However, I would like to get back to the “main contention” question. Was there sufficient evidence to remove ‘any doubt’ in the mind of a reasonable person: I think not. This is a criminal case, 'clear & convincing' just does not cut it, even a 'preponderance of evidence' (as in civil cases) does not suffice. Everone had a basis for being CERTAIN of here guilt: I mean really - it seems I am stating the obvious here.

    And, btw, in my opinion, attending a wiredny meetup and having a face-to-face discussion is a somewhat better way to go about this sort of thing. But, that mind you, is not my main contention here.
    Last edited by infoshare; December 7th, 2009 at 12:00 PM.

  11. #71
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    it's a big leap to say -- based on reading a few articles rather than sitting in the courtroom over many months, hearing testimony and viewing the accused in close proximity -- that a "reasonable person" would not have been able to hand down a conviction.

    Removal of "any doubt" is not required. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the marker.

  12. #72

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    Some questions... correct me if I am wrong here:

    From what I understand Amanda Knox in the US, based on the evidence given ( the lies, alibis etc) could have been found to be an accessory to the crime. And I think we can at least agree that Knox could have been an accessory. The idea is not far fetched.

    (An accomplice must be proven to be at the scene of the crime when it happened an accessory, no.)

    Under US law, wouldn't an accessory to a murder usually get a very tough sentence? Equal to, or tougher, than the 26 years that Knox got?

    Also: under US law if you falsly accuse someone of murder in a case like this, as Knox did with her boss (note she did not retract her statements... her boss was found not quilty weeks later by investigators)... what kind of punishment would you get?

    Any ideas?

    ---

    legal definition of Accomplice:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accomplice

    Accessory:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

  13. #73
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Rather than giving us constant feed-back on your opinions of how I'm posting, contact a moderator and take it up with them.
    Now that's rich, coming from the person who said

    We even had Midtown posting articles by no-nothing American journalists...
    when I wasn't even involved in this thread!

    Constant feedback indeed- coming out of your mouth.


    You remember this important fact: If you hadn't called me out by name when I was not a part of the conversation, I would probably not be on this thread. If YOU hadn't first criticized what I was posting (on a whole other thread no less!), after more than a week of me just ignoring you, things might be different. Now you've summoned me here, so deal with it, and think twice next time you want to talk crap about somebody when they aren't even around. Got it?


    Now, if you think:
    And while we are at it: let's read up on fellow Tuscan Carlo Parlanti who is still held in a California prison... for absolutely nothing:
    is a productive or inviting way to preface a link, a dollop of attitude instead of a meaningful intro like a brief summary or something, so be it.

    And BTW: The Parlanti article is short....Cut the crap.
    There is no "crap" to cut, except the distractions and tit-for-tat- links to unrelated stories that you post. Substitutes for simple questions other forum members ask you.

    SO we are supposed to click on his link and start reading through all this:

    "He met and moved in with a woman, Rebecca. Mr Parlanti entrusted Rebecca with full power of attorney over his assets. However after a few months, their relationship turned sour and at the beginning of June 2002, he asked her to look for her own flat. On 16 July Carlos saw her for the last time before leaving for a business trip to Michigan, and told her that he would expect her to have left the apartment upon his return in a week’s time. She moved out 3 days later. In early August 2002, Mr Parlanti returned to Italy to pursue better work opportunities..."

    This chronological detailing of Parlanti's life goes on for 10 paragraphs, and rather than just telling us what is relevant there, we are supposed to wade through Parlanti's life details...the article itself has nothing toward the top which would tell us (people talking about the Knox case), why we should continue reading all of these details on the Parlanti case. You could have just told us what you were getting at, plain and simple. Is that really so hard to do? You write so much anyway, why is that such a put off for you? I think it is YOU that should "cut the crap".
    ---

    Now, here are some things that don't seem right to me as far as the hearsay and circumstantial evidence:

    When Natalie Hayward, a friend, said she hoped Kercher didn't suffer, Knox burst out: “What do you think? They cut her throat, Natalie. She f****** bled to death!”
    This was believed by the prosecution to indicate guilt. I don't think so. I think it is a normal outburst for someone who just had a roomate murdered and someone says something as idiotic as " I hope she didn't suffer".

    "Investigators were also struck by a gesture she made repeatedly in front of them over the next few days. “She’d press her hands to her temples and shake her head, as if she was trying to empty her brain of something she’d been through,” one of them recalled.

    Why does this say guilty? In stressful situations people touch their temples. Maybe she had a headache for Christ's sake.

    "The quilt, said the prosecution, was also a sign of Knox’s guilt: she could not stand the sight of Kercher’s wounded body, and had covered it in a gesture of female pity.
    "
    Total bull.

    I agree with this:
    "Professor David Canter, director of the centre for investigative psychology at Liverpool University, said Knox seemed to lack many of the typical hallmarks of sexually motivated murderers and as such she presented an unlikely offender profile."

    Very unlikely. As I said, I can't be sure of her guilt or innocence, but the more you look at the things that supposedly pointed to guilt, they are really ridiculous. Touching her temples? Looking stressed?

    What continues to bother me is her changing her stories and all of the shifting alibis.

    This is one thing I thought was totally stupid: rolling out the "Foxy Knoxy" nickname as if to indicate a wanton nature, when it was a childhood soccer nickname. Like I said, sometimes Italy resembles one big Jerry Springer episode.

  14. #74
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Also: under US law if you falsly accuse someone of murder in a case like this, as Knox did with her boss (note she did not retract her statements... her boss was found not quilty weeks later by investigators)... what kind of punishment would you get?
    Now THAT was a bitch thing to do. This is one of the pieces of information that really looks bad for her.

  15. #75

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    Attention moderators and other forum members: does post #57 in the context of what preceeded it and the link provided, merit all of the wind up above (posts #60, #65 #73)? If there is anything wrong with the post please let me know.

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