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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #7741

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    It could be anyone. My interest in this thread is minor compared to the rest of the forum.

    As I said upthread, from when I learned about this murder, and my general interest in criminal justice, this case should never have gone to trial. If Mignini had acted professionally instead of impulsively, he would have waited for confirmation through evidence, Guede the suspect would have been identified, and these years of discussion would never have taken place.

    So now I don't get too involved in trying to take apart upcoming court decisions. I'll read the SC report, and just wait for them to do whatever it is they intend to do. My gut tells me that AK and RS are going to get screwed again. One glimmer might be the change of venue to Florence.

    Saves me the time I don't have to devote to this.

    You haven't been here since before the appeal, right?
    Yes, my interest dwindled and other things took up my time as well. I'm trying to figure out what might happen here, at first I heard some rather dire predictions, but not as much lately.

  2. #7742

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jones View Post
    "That is not an invitation to debate with you or anyone else."

    Post evidence if you have it, lawman.
    Pretty hautey statement 'Trial Lawyer Jones"

    The fact is, I don't need your 'invitation to debate' in order to respond or challenge your 'impressions' (again, sorry NH) or anything else you post here. Try reading the forum rules some time.

    Sorry but neither your permission, nor your invitation is required. If you don't like it perhaps you should find a new venue where you can unilaterally post your views and not worry about indignity of having to defend them.

    Mirror, mirror on the wall comes to mind. Or perhaps a diary, with a lock and key.

    And the conclusions / impressions bullshit is really weak, but I will bite. What evidence have you seen that supports the 'aftermath' impression?
    Last edited by eddhead; June 1st, 2013 at 12:25 AM.

  3. #7743

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    Who says she returned to take a shower? Indeed... if you believe that, you can believe anything.
    So she didn't take a shower?

    How did they prove that; who testified? Did someone swear, "She stinks."

    I remember some cop saying something about, "She smells like sex," but I don't think his mind was on evidence.

    ----------------------------------------------

    One more question: When Mignini played the cartoon that showed an Amanda avatar stabbing Meredith to the jury, did any or all of the defense attorneys jump up and down in protest?

  4. #7744

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    Oh, I forgot - the quilt.

    Is anyone still running around with the idea that covering up the body is characteristic feminine behavior?

    Yes, in our investigative experience, only a young woman who, after plunging a knife into the neck of her roommate for no apparent reason, would show compassion, covering the body.Men just leave. But of course, she wouldn't flee the scene, racked with remorse over what she had done. Nope, calmly clean up, and mosey on back the next day to discover the body.

    Backwater amateur psychology.

    But wait, if she entered the small room, there's that missing DNA problem.

  5. #7745

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaosium View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what might happen here, at first I heard some rather dire predictions, but not as much lately.
    Has anything significant happened?

  6. #7746

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    Not that I know of, I've just been posting at JREF mostly, decided to start looking around.

  7. #7747

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    Pretty hautey statement 'Trial Lawyer Jones"



    And the conclusions / impressions bullshit is really weak, but I will bite. What evidence have you seen that supports the 'aftermath' impression?
    Ease up there, Tex. I have posted the basis for my impressions in several places. My approach now is to gather all the evidence and figure out what is undisputed and where there are conflicts by reading actual testimony and looking at actual trial evidence.

    To make haughty haughtier, it is haughty and not hautey. But I haughty know you, so maybe I am overstepping here into excessive familiarity.
    Last edited by Matt Jones; June 1st, 2013 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Haughtiness.

  8. #7748

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Oh, I forgot - the quilt.

    Is anyone still running around with the idea that covering up the body is characteristic feminine behavior?

    Yes, in our investigative experience, only a young woman who, after plunging a knife into the neck of her roommate for no apparent reason, would show compassion, covering the body.Men just leave. But of course, she wouldn't flee the scene, racked with remorse over what she had done. Nope, calmly clean up, and mosey on back the next day to discover the body.

    Backwater amateur psychology.

    But wait, if she entered the small room, there's that missing DNA problem.
    ^ Just another example of how Zippy knows so little about the case.

    Zip tell us more about the witches and demons.

    ---- I mentioned the quilt because someone returned in the morning, cleaned-up , moved the body, covered it with a quilt and locked the door to Meredith's bedroom. I mentioned it because it just does not fit with Zippy's cockamamie story of how the crime might have happened.

  9. #7749

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jones View Post
    Ease up there, Tex. I have posted the basis for my impressions in several places. My approach now is to gather all the evidence and figure out what is undisputed and where there are conflicts by reading actual testimony and looking at actual trial evidence.
    In fact Matt Jones, that's how it's done. Read the Massei Report. The trial testimony. The email. Sollecito's diary. Read the Hellman Report. The Galati Report etc.

    And come to your own conclusions.

    The Knoxians are all about.... well.... read the thread. And come to your own conclusions there too.

  10. #7750

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    There is an interesting review of Knox's book in the Washington Post by writer Michael Mewshaw.

    Mewshaw's review has some similarities with Matt Jones' Amazon review.

    I don't agree with all that he says in the review, but some of his thoughts I would like to quote:

    "Under the circumstances, the decision to prosecute the case seems neither unreasonable nor excessive "

    "As much as the Italian judicial system has come in for criticism, some of it richly deserved, the fact is that Knox fared far better than she would have if convicted in an American court. "

    "While two years of pretrial detention must have struck them as cruelly long, it wasn’t extraordinary by Italian standards or, indeed, by U.S. standards, where murder defendants often spend years in jail before their cases are heard."

    The full review: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...42e_story.html

    Michael Mewshaw (wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mewshaw
    Last edited by Fabrizio; June 1st, 2013 at 05:36 AM.

  11. #7751

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    Double Post - Please remove. Sorry for the inconvenience.
    Last edited by eddhead; June 1st, 2013 at 08:08 AM.

  12. #7752

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jones View Post
    Ease up there, Tex. I have posted the basis for my impressions in several places.
    Is it my job to seek them out? Or are you so well published that I should just know them.

    Bottom line is if you post something here, be prepared to defend your position. Here. Dismissing my post on the basis of your 'not inviting debate' on something you wrote, is offensive and arrogant. 'But maybe I am overstepping here into excessive familiarity.' (it's a good line, maybe I'll use it again)

    My approach now is to gather all the evidence and figure out what is undisputed and where there are conflicts by reading actual testimony and looking at actual trial evidence.
    That is a great approach and I applaud it.

    But has does that jive with this:
    My own impression at this point is that Knox is innocent of murder but involved in the aftermath for some reason we have not yet discerned.
    It sounds like you are starting your review off with a presumption of sorts, and looking for evidence to support that presumption.
    Last edited by eddhead; June 1st, 2013 at 08:13 AM.

  13. #7753

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    ^ Just another example of how Zippy knows so little about the case.

    Zip tell us more about the witches and demons.

    ---- I mentioned the quilt because someone returned in the morning, cleaned-up , moved the body, covered it with a quilt and locked the door to Meredith's bedroom. I mentioned it because it just does not fit with Zippy's cockamamie story of how the crime might have happened.
    My cockamamie story doesn't have to be true beyond a reasonable doubt; I'm not trying to prove Guede's guilt.

    All armchair observers that follow homicide cases like this have an idea of how the crime may have been committed. It isn't necessary that it satisfies the trial standard of reasonable doubt; we are not on a jury, but we have opinions on how the crime unfolded.

    Fabrizio, on the other hand, has stated that he believes Knox is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Guilty of what I wonder. Like Mignini & Co, he has painted himself into a box. He jokes about his high school yearbook, but his early-on opinion of the Italian judiciary, not unlike Mignini's theory of the case, got ahead of the evidence. It didn't matter if the judges were "looney"; Knox was obviously guilty. But as the evidence has fallen apart, he must now depend on the opinions of the looney judges to prove the case.

    Maybe Fabrizio was lying when he made that statement. Should we believe anything he says now; once a liar always a liar?

    As many might have already figured out in this running joke, a reasonable person might just say, "I made a mistake." What's the big deal.

    Fabrizio seems to have a very rigid personality.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    The quilt: Where is the evidence of a morning cleanup, that Knox entered the room, covered the body, and locked the door? Is this like the evidence of multiple attackers - that doesn't rule out that it might have been a lone attacker?

    The crime scene video of evidence collection could be sold by the police in Perugia to law-enforcement schools - Top Ten Blunders Made in Gathering Evidence. They could use the proceeds to buy recording machines.

    No proper chain of custody of physical evidence. Even the bra clasp that was kicked around for weeks was ultimately improperly stored, and is now useless. They had to return to the crime scene 46 days after the murder to collect more evidence? And what's this shit with Stefanoni, refusing to release the raw data to the court, proclaiming that there's no contamination in her lab. OK Patrizia, good enough for us.

    While the case was still under investigation [in my opinion the source of all the mistakes], the covering of the body with a quilt was thought to be something a woman would do. Along with all the other "expert" behavioral observations, the quilt pointed to a woman and to Knox. Mingini & Co had their mindset. While Knox was a fool, Filomena was smart - got herself a lawyer.

  14. #7754

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    Pure Zippy.

    Re: my post from 2009

    "a reasonable person might just say, "I made a mistake." What's the big deal."

    But I didn't make a mistake. What mistake?

    It is now a number of times that Zippy has pulled out this quote. (It won't be the last, I assure you)

    The first time was perhaps a couple of years ago. And again recently.

    And as I have already explained: I agree with this statement today as much as I did in 2009.

    Years ago, I explained my criticisms about aspects of the Massei Report, about Mignini, and especially (recently) about Judge Hellman. Hellman truly typifies the looniness and corruption.

    In the Berlusconi thread I often criticized the judiciary there.

    But for Zippy I'm supposed to say "I made a mistake". Or even better: maybe I was lying when I made that statement.

    *sigh* Try again Zip.

  15. #7755

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    Speaking of book reviews, I'm in the middle of the latest by John Douglas, Law & Disorder. I've read a few of his books, including Mindhunter and The Anatomy of Motive.

    In Law & Disorder, Douglas writes about several cases, including the West Memphis Three, in which he draws parallels to the Amanda Knox case.

    He devotes 40 pages to Knox. He collected as much evidence as was available to him. He has never met the Knox family. I doubt he would risk an impeccable 40 year career in criminal investigation [he was the model for agent Jack Crawford in Silence of the Lambs] with some "Knoxian" agenda.

    He trashes the entire prosecution investigation.

    I want to bring up an interesting item in the book. I can't lift entire pages out of a book recently published, so I'll quote as much as I can, and source the page in hardcover.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    John Douglas was profiled in the Jan 2011 issue of Maxim magazine. In it, he stated:

    In both cases – West Mamphis and Knox – the police allowed theory rather than evidence to direct their investigations, and that is always a fatal error.
    Paolo Graldi, the editor of the Italian newspaper Il Messaggero, assigned journalist Krista Errickson to contact Douglas for an interview. He agreed.
    It was noted in the interview that he had worked on over 5000 cases, 250 of which were international. At one point, she asked for his conclusion to the Knox case:

    From the profiles I created, none of the behavioral or forensic evidence leads to Amanda and Raffaele. There is no history or experience related to violence in their backgrounds. Guede has the history; he was an experienced criminal, he had the motive, and all evidence points to him. The crime scene does not indicate the presence of three individuals in the room where Meredith was murdered. Behavior reflects personality. And that behavior only fits Rudy Guede.
    Errickson was asked by Graldi to come up wiuth a different version, noting that he didn’t have the real evidence, and there is no legal recognition of his profession in Italy.

    If she didn’t agree, an editorial response by the newspaper’s legal adviser Massimo Martinelli which included [in translation]:

    We have an interview of such that would be seen as interference, seemingly humble, in respect to the work of the investigators, and the prosecution’s theory: in reality, the entire porsecution is swept away with one stroke, and without many issues, in personal opinions of Douglas.
    Errickson refused, and in a conversation with Douglas, he told her to pull the interview and warn the newspaper hat if they published it, he would sue them.

    In an email with Douglas’ attorney Steve Mark, Errickson stated:

    Paolo Graldi, the editor, is someone I have worked with, and moreover, has been a very close personal friend for over 17 years. This shook my faith to its very foundations. After a 2 hour phone argument with Graldi, the last thing he said to me was, "This article, as you wrote it – is too dangerous for Italy.”
    Errickson terminated her 20 year association with Il Messaggero.

    From pages 374-376 of Law & Disorder

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