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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #7906

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    This trial is a farce. I would call it a Kangaroo court, but that would be insulting to Kangaroos.
    I think they're at the point of Show Trial. Although exactly what they intend to "show" is anybody's guess.

    It's certainly not about a search for truth.

  2. #7907
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    I am wondering if Amanda has enough to sue for wrongful prosecution et all....

  3. #7908

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I think they're at the point of Show Trial. Although exactly what they intend to "show" is anybody's guess.

    It's certainly not about a search for truth.
    Zippy, I think you have asked the key question. Opinions have hardened. I doubt there is anyone in the Italian judiciary who does not have an opinion, or who has an open mind, one way or another. What is it they want to show at this point?

    The court has decided to test a small spot on the knife that was not tested the last time. It is being treated like it is a definitive piece of evidence. After all this time who knows what is on there? If they "find" more of Meredith's DNA profile, that will be it, Amanda and Raffaele will be convicted, despite the flimsy and bizarre rest of the case. Despite the fact that it's not the murder weapon. If they find nothing, then what does that mean? Do they acquit them again, but have a celebration now because now it will not be said that the overall evidence is weak, just that there is doubt? Mignini, et al can say they did their best, but there is just not quite enough evidence to prove what these two sneaky individuals were up to that night? Or do they say it doesn't matter, and either convict them of murder (again) or of some lesser charge of aiding Guede or something?

    The biggest mystery that remains in this case is, what is the court up to? What is the end game?

    I agree, it's anybody's guess at the moment.

  4. #7909

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    The evidence on the knife to be tested is a spot of material labelled 36-I. Its mass is 120 picograms.

    A picogram is one trillionth of a gram.

  5. #7910
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    As was said, it could be 10 KG and it still would not matter if the knife does not MATCH the wound.

    They might as well start testing guns for Amanda's DNA.

  6. #7911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    As was said, it could be 10 KG and it still would not matter if the knife does not MATCH the wound.

    They might as well start testing guns for Amanda's DNA.
    This is the type of evidence they use to convict her.

    There are 3 wounds to Meredith's neck. Two are clearly too small, one (the fatal wound) is only compatible with the kitchen knife if the knife is stabbed in only part way. This supposedly happened during a life and death struggle. There is a bloody imprint from another knife on the bed sheet that clearly shows the size and shape of that knife, and it is much smaller than the kitchen knife. That knife has never been found, but would be compatible with all the wounds size-wise.

    So they go, pick out a big knife from Sollecito's kitchen, package it up in a random box that was on one of the police officer's desks, then claim there is a microscopic bit of DNA on the blade, which happens to match Meredith. Except is an extremely small sample, so small that when the Independent experts re-examine the knife in the appeals trial, they cannot find any more DNA, it was all used up in the testing. It was so small it is Low Copy Number DNA, but was tested in a lab that was not suitible to test LCN, and under incorrect protocols. When Stefanoni (the police scientist) did the testing of various items for DNA, sometimes her machine came back with a reading of "too low", which means there is not enough DNA to get an accurate reading. In each of these cases, she stopped testing, recorded, "too low", and went on to the next item. Except on this knife. For the kitchen knife, she turned up the machine settings until she got a reading.

    This is a completely inaccurate and unethical way to conduct an investigation. It only works if the police decide who it guilty first, then do what they can to fit the evidence to that person (or persons, in this case).

  7. #7912

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    There are 3 wounds to Meredith's neck. Two are clearly too small, one (the fatal wound) is only compatible with the kitchen knife if the knife is stabbed in only part way. This supposedly happened during a life and death struggle. There is a bloody imprint from another knife on the bed sheet that clearly shows the size and shape of that knife, and it is much smaller than the kitchen knife. That knife has never been found, but would be compatible with all the wounds size-wise.
    How many knives were taken as evidence and tested?

    I only know of the kitchen knife and a folding knife belonging to Sollecito (the one in his pocket at the police station?). Not sure if they took any knives from Guede.

    Were any knives taken from Lumumba's home during the time he was under arrest?

    How about the murder scene?

    Anything else from Sollecito's apartment?

  8. #7913

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    How many knives were taken as evidence and tested?

    I only know of the kitchen knife and a folding knife belonging to Sollecito (the one in his pocket at the police station?). Not sure if they took any knives from Guede.

    Were any knives taken from Lumumba's home during the time he was under arrest?

    How about the murder scene?

    Anything else from Sollecito's apartment?
    These are great questions. There was only one knife presented in court, as far as we know. I believe there was some presentation of the fact that Sollecito had a knife collection, and that was shown to indicate that he had a habit of carrying a knife around with him, and by implication could kill someone with it. But they didn't find any evidence on any of his knives, or it would clearly have been part of the prosecution's case. Raffaele foolishly took a knife with him in his pocket when he was called into the police station for questioning -- he was so naive that it did not occur to him that he was considered a suspect, so he didn't even bother to leave his pocket knife at home.

    I don't know if they found any knives at either Guede's or Lumumba's apartments. It's never been mentioned, but you would certainly think they would have done that. Of course, there has been an odd selectivity in the way they collected and tested the evidence all along. The glaring example currently being discussed is the "semen stain" (in quoted because we really don't know for sure until they test it). Who has ever heard of a sexual assualt and murder case, where there is a stain found on the pillow under the victim's pelvis, and it is decided not to test that substance to find out who it belongs to? (sorry, I am digressing from the knife questions).

    Back to the knives. There was a semi-famous part of the story where the police took Amanda back to the cottage and showed her the knife drawer, and she broke down sobbing. She says now it is because she realized at that instant that one of their kitchen knives could have been the murder weapon. This was another incident that was used to paint her guilty.

    As evidence in the trial, the only knife in question is the big one from Sollecito's kitchen. I don't even think they tested the other knives in that drawer, just that one.

  9. #7914

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    I don't even think they tested the other knives in that drawer, just that one.
    What a stroke of luck that they picked out the "murder weapon" right on the spot before any tests.

    I don't think most crime investigators are so fortunate.

  10. #7915
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    It's BS.

    As an engineer/scientist I LAUGH in their general direction even before knowing what the crime was or who the suspects were/are.

  11. #7916

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    Back to the knives. There was a semi-famous part of the story where the police took Amanda back to the cottage and showed her the knife drawer, and she broke down sobbing. She says now it is because she realized at that instant that one of their kitchen knives could have been the murder weapon. This was another incident that was used to paint her guilty.
    Imagine that. A terrified, bullied young girl is shown the scene where her friend was murdered and she broke down in tears. Yep, throw away the key...case closed.

  12. #7917

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    There is some breaking news about the case being reported in Italy, but given that all I have at the moment is the typical garbled google translation, I can't report what happened completely accurately. The best I can determine at the moment is that they tested another part of the kitchen knife, perhaps the part near the handle. Or perhaps they opened the handle, and DNA tested what they found there. The report is saying the DNA matches Amanda Knox.

    If true, this would mean ... Nothing. It has already been stipulated that her DNA is on the knife, and that is not unusual, because it was used to cook with at her boyfriend's apartment.

    Here's a link to the google translation of an Italian article. http://translate.google.com/translat...48%26tbm%3Dnws

    I'll let you know more when I get better info.

  13. #7918
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    What are those involved trying to achieve with all of this? It seems much too tarnished, now.

  14. #7919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merry View Post
    What are those involved trying to achieve with all of this? It seems much too tarnished, now.
    Good question, and that is what many are wondering. What is this latest trial trying to do? Are they trying to examine all the evidence, to finally declare the truth? Or are they trying to find some "smoking gun" that they can use to confirm the conviction? The first appeal declared that there was very little rational case against the two, but the Italian Supreme Court threw that out, saying the appeal court did not address some theories and ignored some evidence (IMO, those theories and evidence were so weak that the appeal court ignored them, but ...).

    I agree with you, who knows if this knife has even been kept in a secure state? It's been in and out of labs, and the collection and testing has already been called into question previously. The latest news seems a victory for the defense, with info leaked to the media indicating no blood or DNA of Meredith Kercher found, only more DNA of Amanda Knox. But it's a victory is a weird game where the referees may change the rules at any time.

  15. #7920

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    They tested some DNA they found on the knife and found that it was from Amanda Knox. I think that Bongiorno asked that the handle be taken apart to look for blood but that request was denied. No DNA from Meredith Kercher was found, so for all intents and purposes, this investigation established that this was not the murder knife. It confirms the conclusions of the independent experts from La Sapienza in Rome, and negates the conclusions of Patricia Stefanoni, someone who does not have an advanced degree, and was using lab practices and analyzing the results in a way that is not supported in the world literature on forensic science.

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