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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #8011

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    Finally justice in Italy. I mean, they jailed scientists for failing to predict an earthquake!

    Not to be forgotten, of course, that Italians killed Jesus and blamed it on the Jews. So this whole Amanda Knox thing isn't new.

  2. #8012

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastMillinocket View Post
    Finally justice in Italy. I mean, they jailed scientists for failing to predict an earthquake!

    Not to be forgotten, of course, that Italians killed Jesus and blamed it on the Jews. So this whole Amanda Knox thing isn't new.
    Apart from a rather racist comment, regarding 'Italians killed Jesus' - the modern state of Italy wasn't founded until 1861.

  3. #8013

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    Hot off the press! Italian Surpreme Court Annuls murder convictions! Details to come.
    I wonder if the previous court ruling on multiple assailants was amended.

    If not, this saga becomes an ongoing criminal investigation, or at the least, a cold-case.

  4. #8014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wobert Wedford View Post
    Apart from a rather racist comment, regarding 'Italians killed Jesus' - the modern state of Italy wasn't founded until 1861.
    Italian is not a race, and it is a fact that Pontius Pilate was born in Abruzzo, Italy, thus rendering him an Italian (they were called Romans at the time).

    But your other comment is the more interesting one, because I should never blame the Germans for anything they did in World War II as the modern state of the Federal Republic of Germany wasn't founded until 1949.

  5. #8015

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastMillinocket View Post
    Italian is not a race, and it is a fact that Pontius Pilate was born in Abruzzo, Italy, thus rendering him an Italian (they were called Romans at the time).

    But your other comment is the more interesting one, because I should never blame the Germans for anything they did in World War II as the modern state of the Federal Republic of Germany wasn't founded until 1949.
    1) Jesus was a Jew - hence my reference to 'racism'.
    2) Italy did not exist during biblical times so a reference to 'Italians' is incorrect.
    3) Germany was founded by Bismarck in 1871.

  6. #8016

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    someone please make it go away...

  7. #8017

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    I knew that WW would be inserting some comic relief into the Knox thread once she was exonerated. Little did I know it would involve Bismark, Jews and the origins of two European countries. Amazing.

  8. #8018

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    Perhaps but after 2000 years, it is hard to imagine what how this comment has in any way relative to the discussion:

    Not to be forgotten, of course, that Italians killed Jesus and blamed it on the Jews
    especially since as WW put it, the modern state of Italy was not formed until 1861.

    Besides sounding like an axe grinding, references such as these only serve to dilute the primary criticism of state of modern Italy's legal system - a criticism I agree with.

    Really that was uncalled for.

  9. #8019

    Default

    Yes, but Italy was a kingdom until 1946, and the current Republican Constitution (from which Italian penal law derives) dates to 1947. Would anyone argue that Dante was not Italian?

  10. #8020

    Default

    But it was still Italy. The fact that the system of government has since changed, does not suggest the Italian State did not exist prior to 1946.

    On the other hand,the Italian state did not exist during the life of Christ.

    And even that is besides the point.

    Exactly how is Christ's death which occurred 2000 years ago relevant to the the Italian judicial court system in place today? Did the Knox trial take place in a Roman province? Was it presided over by a Roman prefect who served as leader of the executive and judicial functions of government? Are you suggesting that the modern day Italian court system was modeled after the system the Roman's put in place to govern Roman provinces?

    Validating your point by referring to an event in history that took place 2000 years ago, is at least odd.

    Frankly, as an Italian American, I found your post offensive. To me it reeked of having an axe to grind.
    Last edited by eddhead; March 30th, 2015 at 11:16 AM.

  11. #8021

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I wonder if the previous court ruling on multiple assailants was amended.

    If not, this saga becomes an ongoing criminal investigation, or at the least, a cold-case.
    We won't know for awhile, not until the motivation report is issued, within 90 days.

    All we know is that this one is extremely definitive -- they could have sent it back for still another trial, but instead they declared it over.

    Will they declare a new 'truth" that Guede acted alone? Or will they say he still killed "with others", and say they don't know who the others are?

    A better question now is, who gets thrown under the bus for this debacle? Mignini, Stefanoni, etc.? Or no one?

    Personally, I don't really care, I am just glad to see two innocent people not have to go through this legal hell anymore.

  12. #8022

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    Personally, I don't really care, I am just glad to see two innocent people not have to go through this legal hell anymore.
    Yes, I'm sure.

    For those interested in reform of the judiciary, it would be beneficial to view the case history through a lens not distorted by the personal lives of Knox and Sollecito. Regarding the changes that were made to undo the abuses of the Fascist era, I came across this:
    Italy’s criminal justice system is the product of a reform that stopped halfway. A law introduced in 1989 was meant to replace the country’s traditional inquisitorial system with an adversarial one. But it remains a clumsy mix. Of particular relevance to the Kercher affair was that the reform all but abolished discretion as to which cases should be brought to court. Whatever view is taken of the evidence—and there will always be those who believe that Ms Knox and her former boyfriend were angel-faced killers—the investigation was marked by grave irregularities. In many other systems, the case would never have gone beyond the committal stage.
    http://www.economist.com/news/europe...stem-innocente

    I was surprised by the decision, but it made me look at the SC vacating Hellmann in a different way. At that time, it seemed that the SC wanted a conviction, and this was fueled by the polarizing influence of innocence/guilt camps. One side saw it as corruption, the other as a definitive decision of guilt. The Nencini trial became a rubber stamp.

    But if you look at the decision as to why most high courts vacate verdicts - procedural matters of law, or new evidence, it makes more sense. I didn't follow the Nencini trial closely, but I remember that the SC wanted the knife retested. That was done, and it came up negative. Other than a few speculative theories, I don't recall any significant evidentiary findings. If that's correct, then the Nencini court should have upheld Hellmann. It didn't and the SC corrected the error.

    http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/201...ti_-110835508/
    How come you left the judiciary right after that verdict?

    Hellmann: I was practically forced to. Our decision was received with reactions of contempt. I can still remember the whistling and the shouting by a claque that had gathered outside the Court house on the evening of the verdict. From the next day I felt surrounded by a growing hostility. In the bars of Perugia they were saying I had sold out to the Americans, that I had yielded to the pressures of the CIA. Tall tales, of course, but what hit me more than the defamatory lynching that lasted years, was the reaction of colleagues in the judiciary. Nearly all of them stopped greeting me. In particular those who in various roles had been involved in the case. I realized that my Court had been a lone voice in a Courthouse where all the judges, starting with the GUP (Judge of the Preliminary hearing) up to those of various review courts, while criticizing the investigation, had endorsed the charges. In addition I had good possibilities of becoming the President of the Tribunal and naturally that position was assigned to another colleague who certainly was very worthy but I had some suspicion that it was a retaliation. So, six months after the sentence I decided to retire.
    One of the reforms that should be made is to eliminate the 90 day period between a decision and its explanation. You could justify a period of time (2 weeks?) for a jury trial, but not for a high court decision. Don't they know their motivations when they announce their decision? The two should be released concurrently. The 90 day waiting period only increases the possibility that the motivation report is influenced by the public reaction to the decision.

  13. #8023

    Default Another step toward righting this wrong ...

    New news (if anyone still cares). The European Court of Human Rights has agreed to hear Amanda Knox's claim that her rights were violated during the infamous interrogation where she named Patrick Lumumba as the killer. I'll let our old friend Babs Nadeau tell it:

    Amanda Knox Goes Back to Court to Clear Her Name

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-her-name.html

  14. #8024
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    not this again

  15. #8025

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    Knowing the European Court of Human Rights they'll probably find the Italians guilty!

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