Reply With QuoteFab wrote:Peni? Is that a new pasta? Who, what? Me? Whaddaya mean? Like that?^^ And mine is bigger than yours.
Um, I was just following your lead. Like in the thread with Prodi too. Why always bring up male anatomy, fab? It's kind of lowbrow.
Originally Posted by MidtownGuy
....that is until Midtown decides to discuss peni.
Fab wrote:Peni? Is that a new pasta? Who, what? Me? Whaddaya mean? Like that?^^ And mine is bigger than yours.
Um, I was just following your lead. Like in the thread with Prodi too. Why always bring up male anatomy, fab? It's kind of lowbrow.
okie dokey ...
Since i started this thread I'm requesting that we get back on track -- which can include discussion of the Grand Mosque or other mosques in Europe (but not so much the other stuff).
Cordoba has an incredible mosque -- the Great Mosque of Cordoba -- which dates back to ~ 785 AD.
When I saw it back in the early 90s I had the place to myself (but then I had all sorts of fantastic places to myself, as I was traveling during the midst of the World Cup and wherever I went -- whether in Italy, Spain or Portugal -- everyone seemed to be sitting in front of a television set).
More photos at the ArchNet Digital Library - Great Mosque of Cordoba
I have to refute the European mosques are not just hole-in-the-walls, just because someone who visited one place happened to see some that were hole-in-the-walls, and thus concluded to everyone that all of them were, across the entire continent (and you do realise also churches across the region are being converted to mosques too). -And please, there are 40 million European Muslims (compared to 2.5 million US ones). Yes some may be small that cater to a local street, but they are never far from a Jamme Masjid (Grand Friday mosque). So do, please, visit again.
Oh? I concluded ALL of them were, across the continent, did I? I would like you to present that quote where I said that. Otherwise, please avoid putting words in my mouth. Or creating straw men arguments. Thanks.I have to refute the European mosques are not just hole-in-the-walls, just because someone who visited one place happened to see some that were hole-in-the-walls, and thus concluded to everyone that all of them were, across the entire continent
And the number of Muslims proves what?-And please, there are 40 million European Muslims (compared to 2.5 million US ones). Yes some may be small that cater to a local street, but they are never far from a Jamme Masjid (Grand Friday mosque). So do, please, visit again.
I agree with this. Anecdotal evidence is limited.
Who counted them? The US Census doesn't, and the figure is considered very underestimated.and please, there are 40 million European Muslims (compared to 2.5 million US ones).
But let's agree that there are several-times the percentage of Muslims in Europe as in the US. You would expect then, that European Muslims would be more politically and socially integrated than those in the US. But that's not the case. The one anomaly in Europe seems to be the UK.
Locations of mosques in La France:
"But let's agree that there are several-times the percentage of Muslims in Europe as in the US. You would expect then, that European Muslims would be more politically and socially integrated than those in the US. But that's not the case."
Muslims are more socially integrated here then you might imagine.
Politically... you are correct... probably not.
Note that the growth of the Muslim populations has been very swift. Immigration in general has grown very fast in just the last 5 years. The impact on society has been surprizing... unexpected.
Europe is dealing with the fears and disorientation that all of this naturally produces. It will go through it's own upheavals, successes and mistakes, just as the US did when the color of it's cities began to change. Although I believe it will not be as violent as it was in the US.
I disagree with DrT when he says: "The Americans are a thousand times more racist than Europeans". That is just silly talk.
Also: it would be interesting to see the reaction in the US if Muslim populations were as high there as they are here.
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Last edited by Fabrizio; January 2nd, 2010 at 05:57 PM.
check it out Newsweek article Dispelling the Myth of Eurabia (Eurabia being a neoCon American concept adopted by the European far right):
http://www.newsweek.com/id/206230/page/2
Excerpts:
"For the number of Muslims to outnumber non-Muslims by midcentury, it would require either breeding on a scale rarely seen in history or for immigration to continue at a pace that's now politically unacceptable. More likely, new controls will slow Muslim immigration. The birthrate for Muslim immigrants is also likely to continue to decline, as it has tended to do, with greater affluence and better health care. There is no Europewide data available, but one study says fertility rates among Turkish-born women in the Netherlands fell from 3.2 in 1990 to 1.9 in 2005, barely above the figure for native-born Dutch. Over the same period, the equivalent figure for Moroccan-born women in the Netherlands dropped from 4.9 to 2.9. Also, fertility rates are edging upward in some Northern European countries, which would offset some of the Muslim growth. Bottom line: given the number of variables, demographers are loath to make predictions about the number of Muslims in Europe in the years to come. "You would almost have to make it up," says Carl Haub, the senior demographer at the Population Reference Bureau in Washington. And the idea of a Muslim majority any time soon? "Absolutely absurd."
"And violent zealotry is for the tiny minority: polls repeatedly reaffirm that Muslims overwhelmingly disapprove of terrorism. In some countries, the mood is broadly secular. "The majority of Muslims in France are, in fact, decoupled from their religion. They just blend into an amorphous mass of brown or black people," says Ali Allawi, the former Iraqi defense minister and author of the The Crisis of Islamic Civilization. Jochen Hippler, a German political scientist at the University of Duisburg-Essen, says he has had young Turks come up to him to ask what Islam is all about. "They have lost any connection with the religion of their parents and grandparents," he says. A recent government survey showed that 40 percent of Iranians living in Germany identified themselves as having no religion, as did 23 percent of North Africans. In the Netherlands, the proportion of Muslims who regularly attend the mosque—27 percent—is lower than the proportion of Protestants who go to church."
...and on the 'endangered' Black population of the UK (and when I say 'Black' I mean those not of mixed race):
http://www.afroromance.com/blog/stud...-disappear.htm
January 20th, 2009
Study: Interracial Relationships Causing Black People in the UK to Disappear
“If population projections based on the national census are to be believed, people who describe themselves as ‘mixed race’ could become the largest, single, ethnic minority group in the UK within the next 25 years.” - Laura Smith (The Catalyst Magazine)
MediaTakeOut.com claims having got hold of an article in one of the UK newspapers suggesting that Black folk (Caribbean Black folk in particular) are in danger of disappearing because of the rise in interracial relationships in the UK.
Apparently, 1 in 10 children in the UK come from mixed-race families. Going by the study’s prediction, if current trends (interracial relationships and marriages) continue, some ethnic minorities may cease to exist as mixed-race individuals become more common.
The study also shows that some ethnic groups are more likely to be in interracial relationships. Going by the figures provided by the study, 48% of Black Caribbean men and 34 per cent of Black Caribbean women are in interracial relationships in contrast to those of Pakistani backgrounds (8% men and 6% women).
Do you think we should worry ourselves over some ethnic groups disappearing due to interracial relationships or should we instead look at it from a different perspective – that racism in the UK is disappearing?
Last edited by zupermaus; January 2nd, 2010 at 08:15 PM.
True interracial relation is very common in France and UK. (Especially black white but not only)
Now as we still have immigration I don't think that black population will disappear.
By the way, According estimation more than 15% of muslims in France marry with non muslims.
A very high number for a community that is said to highly segegrated and separated of the rest of the society according many medias.
The reality is that the muslims are a way more integrated than it is said.
I also hate how international media speak as they only where white "native" french and north african muslims immigrant in France
First most muslims are not immigrant, I don't even know if I would use the term muslims.
Secular muslims is a better one.
Secondly many white french are son, grand son or great son etc of immigrant especially in city like Marseille. (Nicolas Sarkosy is the son of hungarian immigrant and it is far to be the only exemple)
So I don't see why a white of Marseille would be more native than a muslims, it is not because some people (unfortunely too many people) think in this way that it is true.
Thirdly, we also have many other minorities.
btw, there are thousands of Christian churches (alongside cathedrals, convents and monasteries) in Islamic countries, please just check this thread out, it's pretty eye-opening. Theyre not all like Saudi Arabia (that forbids them - though the Saudi king did recently meet with the Pope to discuss building a major church there):
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=970006
.
Last edited by zupermaus; January 3rd, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
Some highlights of churches in Muslim countries of over 90 percent
Coptic Cathedral Cairo
St Mark's Cathedral, Cairo
All Saint's Anglican, Cairo
Orthodox cathedral, Cairo
Orthodox Easter at the Holy See of Cairo
St Michael Aswan Cathedral
St Bishoy Monastery
St Catherine Monastery
Moqattan Coptic Church of the Rocks
St Mark Cathedral, Alexandria
Church of the Annunciation, Alexandria
Alexandria Cathedral, and other major Alexandrine churches
,
Algiers Cathedral
Cathedrale Notre Dame d'Afrique, Algiers
Cathedrale de Sacre Couer, Algiers
Basilica of St Augustin d'Hippone, Annaba, Algeria
Basilica of Santa Cruz, Oran, Algeria
Church of Mostaganem, Algeria
St Stephanos Cathedral, Jolffa, Iran
Vank Cathedral, Esfahan, Iran
St Sarkis Cathedral, Tehran
St Thaddeus, Markku, Iran
Christmas in Tehran
main Christian Churches of Iran are:
Armenian Apostolic Church of Iran
Assyrian Church of the East of Iran
Chaldean Catholic Church of Iran
various Protestant denominations, most important of which are:
Presbyterian, including the Assyrian Evangelical Church
Jama'at-e Rabbani (the Iranian Assemblies of God churches)
and the Anglican Church of Iran.
our Lady of the Rosary, Doha, Qatar
Orthodox Coptic Church, Abu Dhabi, UAE
Catholic Cathedral, Kuwait
St Paul Cathedral, Rabat, Morocco
Sacre Couer Cathedral, Casablanca
Notre Dame Cathedral, Casablanca
Tangier Cathedral
Tangier Catholic Church
San Bartoleme, Asilah, Morocco
St Patrick's Cathedral, Pakistan
Catholic Cathedral, Jakarta
Church of Yogjakarta, Indonesia
Mogadishu RC Cathedral, Somalia
Basilica of St Paul, Beirut
Armenian catholic Cathedral, Beirut
Our Lady of Lebanon Shrine and Basilica, Harissa
St Anthony of Padua, Istanbul
St Stephen Bulgarian Church, Istanbul
Holy Trinity, Istanbul
Last edited by zupermaus; January 3rd, 2010 at 10:38 AM.
...Syria
Malloula shrine
Monastery of Saidnaya
Jordan
Iraq
$
Last edited by zupermaus; January 3rd, 2010 at 10:32 AM.
^ These photos can give a false image that all is well for Christians in these countries. It is often not. Look into Ahmadinejad's Iran for starters.
Oh.... and those Churches in Cairo are particularly lovely:
"While the Egyptian government does not have a policy to persecute Christians, it discriminates against them and hampers their freedom of worship. Its agencies sporadically persecute Muslim converts to Christianity. The government enforces Hamayouni Decree restrictions on building or repairing churches. These same restrictions, however, do not apply to mosques.
"The government has effectively restricted Christians from senior government, diplomatic, military, and educational positions, and there has been increasing discrimination in the private sector. The government subsidizes media which attack Christianity and restricts Christians access to the state-controlled media."
"In Egypt the government does not officially recognize conversions from Islam to Christianity; because certain interfaith marriages are not allowed either, this prevents marriages between converts to Christianity and those born in Christian communities, and also results in the children of Christian converts being classified as Muslims and given a Muslim education. The government also applies religiously-discriminatory laws and practices concerning clergy salaries."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians
--
Last edited by Fabrizio; January 3rd, 2010 at 10:08 AM.
Happy New Year Zupermaus. It is always a pleasure to meet you again in WNY-F. You're a great BULLFIGHTER to me,... the best in this BULLRING called WNY-F !!!
Viva ZUPERMAUS !!!,
oOOOoooleeee!!!, oOOOOoooleeee !!!
Yes, I Know about these churchs. I've written about of many churchs in Muslim countries in WNY-F, in the thread of "Religious Architecture".
But now the question is different to me: we are talking about Marseille and the problems of muslims in the Southern of Europe.
I think MidtownGuy don't know what he says, because he's the tipycal american boy that talk about this problems without intelligence.
For example, this is the latest project to build a Great Mosque in Spain. It has a tiny minaret of 330 meters high,... you Know: a small store with a dirty chimney, isn't it?,... because Spaniards (we are Europeans, aren't we?...) are most racists (maybe not multiculturals) than americans,... like says the "unforgettable" MidtownGuy.
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