Reply With QuoteProtesters are worried about the Tablighi Jamaat who have been under investigation in the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/14/na...l?pagewanted=1
Many locals claimed the area was already too crowded.
Didn't see so many make that argument about the Olympic Stadium going in close by.
Protesters are worried about the Tablighi Jamaat who have been under investigation in the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/14/na...l?pagewanted=1
feckin nimbys!Originally Posted by lofter1
Sun-reading, Daily Mail worshipping, Sky news watching, Conservative voting nimbys. Terrified their children will grow up into shoe bombers.
^ Why is the group under investigation?
From the above article:
"American and European law enforcement officials say Tablighi Jamaat’s simple message masks a fertile recruiting ground for terrorists."
(BTW the Detroit bomber was part of this group).
In the US the FBI is planting listening devices and infiltrating Mosques... are their worries just silliness? They've got nothing better to do?
--
Last edited by Fabrizio; January 3rd, 2010 at 04:47 PM. Reason: clarity
This article from the Islamic Academy website condemns the group:
Tableeghi Jamaat Exposed
An article from the Middle East Forum:
... the Tableeghi Jamaat wants to be an exclusive sect of Muslims, which excludes all other Muslims who do not follow its peculiar definition of what it means to convey the message of Islam, a definition which is clearly and erroneous and far removed from the one which Allah gives in the Quran. One can only conclude from this statement that all other Muslims are considered by them to be misguided.
Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions
by Alex Alexiev
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2005
[NOTE: Mr. Alexiev was, for 20 years, a senior analyst with the national security division at the Rand Corporation]
Every fall, over a million almost identically dressed, bearded Muslim men from around the world descend on the small Pakistani town of Raiwind for a three-day celebration of faith. Similar gatherings take place annually outside of Dhaka, Bangladesh, and Bhopal, India. These pilgrims are no ordinary Muslims, though; they belong to a movement called Tablighi Jamaat ("Proselytizing Group"). They are trained missionaries who have dedicated much of their lives to spreading Islam across the globe. The largest group of religious proselytizers of any faith, they are part of the reason for the explosive growth of Islamic religious fervor and conversion.
Despite its size, worldwide presence, and tremendous importance, Tablighi Jamaat remains largely unknown outside the Muslim community, even to many scholars of Islam. This is no coincidence. Tablighi Jamaat officials work to remain outside of both media and governmental notice ...
Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
... The West's misreading of Tablighi Jamaat actions and motives has serious implications for the war on terrorism. Tablighi Jamaat has always adopted an extreme interpretation of Sunni Islam, but in the past two decades, it has radicalized to the point where it is now a driving force of Islamic extremism and a major recruiting agency for terrorist causes worldwide. For a majority of young Muslim extremists, joining Tablighi Jamaat is the first step on the road to extremism. Perhaps 80 percent of the Islamist extremists in France come from Tablighi ranks, prompting French intelligence officers to call Tablighi Jamaat the "antechamber of fundamentalism."[12] U.S. counterterrorism officials are increasingly adopting the same attitude. "We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the United States," the deputy chief of the FBI's international terrorism section said in 2003, "and we have found that Al-Qaeda used them for recruiting now and in the past."[13]
(...)
Another violent Tablighi Jamaat spin-off is the Harakat ul-Jihad-i Islami.[17] Founded in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, this group has been active not only in the disputed Indian provinces of Jammu and Kashmir but also in the state of Gujarat, where Tablighi Jamaat extremists have taken over perhaps 80 percent of the mosques previously run by the moderate Barelvi Muslims.[18] The Tablighi movement is also very active in northern Africa where it became one of the four groups that founded the Islamic Salvation Front in Algeria. Moroccan authorities are currently prosecuting sixty members of the Moroccan Tablighi offshoot Dawa wa Tabligh in connection with the May 16, 2003 terrorist attack on a Casablanca synagogue.[19] Dutch police are investigating links between the Moroccan cells and the November 2, 2004 murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.[20]
A Trojan Horse for Terror in America?
Within the United States, the cases of American Taliban John Lindh, the "Lackawanna Six," and the Oregon cell that conspired to bomb a synagogue and sought to link up with Al-Qaeda,[30] all involve Tablighi missionaries.[31] Other indicted terrorists, such as "shoe bomber" Richard Reid, "dirty bomber" Jose Padilla, and Lyman Harris, who sought to bomb the Brooklyn Bridge, were all members of Tablighi Jamaat at one time or another.[32] According to Robert Blitzer, head of the FBI's first Islamic counterterrorism unit, between 1,000 and 2,000 Americans left to join the jihad in the 1990s alone.[33] Pakistani intelligence sources report that 400 American Tablighi recruits received training in Pakistani or Afghan terrorist camps since 1989.[34]
(...)
The American political system tolerates all views so long as they adhere to the rule of law. Unfortunately, Tablighi Jamaat missionaries may be encouraging African American recruits to break the law. Harkat ul-Mujahideen has boasted of training dozens of African American jihadists in its military camps. There is evidence that African American jihadists have died in both Afghanistan and Kashmir.[43]
Tablighi Jamaat: The Future of American Islam?
Tablighi Jamaat has made unprecedented strides in recent decades. It increasingly relies on local missionaries rather than South Asian Tablighis to recruit in Western countries and often sets up groups which apparently model themselves after Tablighi Jamaat but do not acknowledge links to it.[44]
In the United States, such a role is apparently played by the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) ... While the relationship between ICNA and Tablighi Jamaat is not clear, the two organizations share a number of similarities. They both embrace the extreme Deobandi and Wahhabi interpretations of Islam ... As with Tablighi Jamaat, ICNA demands total dedication to missionary work from its members. Because many ICNA members spend at least thirty hours per week on their mission,[49] their ability to independently support themselves is unclear. Many cannot hold full-time jobs. ICNA's recruitment efforts have borne fruit, though. All ICNA members are organized in small study groups of no more than eight people, called NeighborNets. As in a cult, these cells provide support and reinforcement for new recruits, who may have sought to fill a void in their lives. Its yearly convocations, patterned on the annual Tablighi Jamaat meetings in South Asia, now attract some 15,000 people.[50] ...
Alex Alexiev is vice president for research at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C.
***
Some prominent members of the Center for Security Policy:
Richard Perle - Former Chair of the Defense Policy Board
Douglas J. Feith - Former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Laura Ingraham - talk radio host[3]
Some folks recently honored by the CSP with their "Keeper of the Flame Award":
2007 - Senator Joe Lieberman (ID-CT)
2005 - Sen. James Inhofe and the Heroes of the Homefront
2003 - Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense and the Liberators of Iraq
1998 - Donald H. Rumsfeld, former and future Secretary of Defense
Zupermaus has always posted wonderful threads here and we are fortunate to have him! I enjoyed looking at all of the churches in Islamic countries. So many interesting interpretations. But I'm curious about the "bullfighter" line. Zupermaus has a peaceful presence here, as far as I know. And WNY is hardly a bullring. This forum is much more civil than places like SSC.
^BUT, I see that you are bringing some of that SSC douche-bagginess over here...starting off with insults; it's the wrong way to go.
Until this point, I had no real animosity toward you...I have enjoyed your Murcia contributions and other posts regarding Spain. Yet after a brief exchange on this thread, I see you trying to instigate and disturb the peace with an aggressive and nasty statement like the one above.
Cool your jets.
Otra cosa...I think I must be far from the "typical American boy", if he exists as you imagine.
I'm a proudly-left-wing, gay, self-employed artist and political activist who spends at least 3 months a year in...Europe
Now...I would like us to continue in a more pleasant way. Otherwise, go jump off a bridge.
Last edited by MidtownGuy; January 3rd, 2010 at 09:05 PM.
zupermaus:
The article you linked to regarding the disappearance of Black people (
can hardly be taken seriously. "Afroromance.com" has an interesting perspective on this, I'm sure. Anyway, there are all sorts of questions about how one defines Black. Their way seems problematic...some sort of "purebred" nonsense or something? It's meaningless drivel...aimed at provoking, not real science or reason.
The article you linked to at Afroromance.com links back to the original at mediatakeout, where a typically sensationalist headline screams about an EXPLOSIVE! study. Bullocks.
Dr T:
I don't think you should be speaking of people "talking without intelligence" when you make uniformed remarks like:Douchebaggery indeed.
I've never said: "I am a man with intelligence",... I'm Spaniard, you know. Any problem?
Happy New Year ZippyTheChimp.
I very much like what you do with your life,... but I am a Real Madrid fan and I like bullfighting, beauty women and good wine... and I am very happy with it.^BUT, I see that you are bringing some of that SSC douche-bagginess over here...starting off with insults; it's the wrong way to go.
Until this point, I had no real animosity toward you...I have enjoyed your Murcia contributions and other posts regarding Spain. Yet after a brief exchange on this thread, I see you trying to instigate and disturb the peace with an aggressive and nasty statement like the one above.
Cool your jets.
Otra cosa...I think I must be far from the "typical American boy", if he exists as you imagine.
I'm a proudly-left-wing, gay, self-employed artist and political activist who spends at least 3 months a year in...
Now...I would like us to continue in a more pleasant way. Otherwise, go jump off a bridge.
Do you not like bullfighting? Well, in a few weeks will be in Las Vegas several runs, ... you can go to see them and then tell me what you think.
In Spain if an American does not like bullfighting is: "... another typical American boy", ... not everyone has the capacity to appreciate the ART OF BULLFIGHTING.
See you, MidtownGuy.
^ ( ...sounds more like the art of bullshitting if you ask me.)
------------
Now this is just not cool:
British P.M. ‘Appalled’ by Protest Plan
By JOHN F. BURNS - NYTIMES
Published: January 4, 2010
LONDON — A radical Islamic group planning a protest march through the streets of a town that has achieved iconic status in Britain for honoring the passing hearses of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan ran into a stiff rebuff from the British government on Monday.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a statement saying he was “personally appalled” by the group’s plan to march through the streets of Wootton Bassett, a town 50 miles west of London where townspeople have lined the sidewalks since April 2007 to mourn the passing corteges of British military casualties flown home to the nearby military airbase at Lyneham.
“Wootton Bassett has a special significance for us all at this time, as it has been the scene of the repatriation of many members of our armed forces who have tragically fallen,” Mr. Brown said. “Any attempt to use this location to cause further distress and suffering to those who have lost loved ones would be abhorrent and offensive.”
Plans for staging the march were laid out in a letter sent by Anjem Choudary, the leader of a group called Islam4UK, to the families of the 246 British soldiers killed in Afghanistan since the toppling of the Taliban in 2001. The organization describes itself as a “platform” for promoting the views of an extremist Islamic group, Al Muhajiroun, which praised the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States as heroes, but disbanded in 2005 in response to a British government order banning it.
Complete article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/wo...ef=global-home
Last night 73 immigrants trying to enter in Spain illegally crossing Mediterranean Sea from North Africa. They were the first of 2010
Llegan las primeras pateras del año a Granada, Almería y Murcia
Foto: Reuters
MADRID, 4 Ene. (EUROPA PRESS) -
Tres pateras con un total de 73 inmigrantes a bordo fueron interceptadas a lo largo de este domingo cuando navegaban en aguas de Granada, Almería y Murcia. Se trata de la primera oleada de este tipo de embarcaciones que trata de llegar a las costas españolas desde que comenzó el año.
La primera patera, con 43 inmigrantes a bordo, fue interceptada sobre las 13.00 horas a unas 15 millas al sureste de Motril, en Granada. Al lugar se trasladó la Guardia Civil y la Guardemar 'Caliopez' de Salvamento Marítimo.
Agentes de la Guardia Civil y Salvamento Marítimo rescataron a los inmigrantes y los trasladaron hasta el puerto de Motril, donde llegaron sobre las 16.00 horas. Una vez en tierra, fueron asistidos por miembros de Cruz Roja, que les proporcionaron ropa seca y comida, y posteriormente trasladados al centro de acogida del que dispone el Puerto de Motril.
Horas después, otros 18 magrebíes adultos fueron trasladados esta tarde al puerto de Almería por Salvamento Marítimo tras ser interceptada la patera en la que viajaban a 27 millas del sureste de Cabo de Gata.
Fuentes de Salvamento Marítimo informaron a Europa Press de que la patera fue detectada a las 13.00 horas de hoy y rescatada a las 17.30 horas gracias a la embarcación Salvamar 'Denébola', perteneciente a Salvamento Marítimo de Almería, así como por la patrullera Río Jiloca del Cuerpo de la Guardia Civil. Todos los inmigrantes presentaban un aparente buen estado de salud.
Asimismo, una tercera embarcación con 12 inmigrantes de nacionalidad argelina a bordo --diez varones adultos, una mujer y un menor-- fue interceptada en aguas de Murcia.
El Servicio de Vigilancia Aduanera avistó a mediodía una embarcación rápida de unos 4,5 metros de eslora y 15 cv a unas 30 millas de Cabo de Palos (44,5 kilómetros), que fue rescatada a primeras horas de esta tarde por una patrullera de Salvamento Marítimo, según informaron fuentes de la Delegación del Gobierno en comunicado de prensa.
De acuerdo con el protocolo establecido por la Delegación del Gobierno, tras su rescate han sido trasladados al puerto de Cartagena, donde han recibido la ayuda humanitaria dispensada por Cruz Roja y posteriormente han pasado a disposición del Cuerpo Nacional de Policía para su identificación e inicio de los trámites de devolución a su país de origen.
Según las mismas fuentes, el menor ha sido puesto a disposición del Servicio del Menor de la Comunidad Autónoma.
No thanks. I'll be in Alaska clubbing seals, me and some friends.Do you not like bullfighting? Well, in a few weeks will be in Las Vegas several runs, ... you can go to see them and then tell me what you think.
Anyway, Dr. T-bag, you have some nerve coming on an American forum and talking as much yaya as you do about "American" whatever. If you have so much against Americans, why stick around here? Drink, screw, and kill whatever you want, just don't come up in my face talking all that smack and we'll be fine.
This thread is way off base. Take the political stuff to News and Politics unless it is relevant.
And guys, stop the childish insults. It is against forum rules so infractions will follow for continued use.
Thanks ^
As creator of this thread I gave it a shot a couple of pages ago, but alas ...
Granted, architecture and politics often go hand in hand so discussion of controversy surrounding the building of the Grand Mosque of Marseilles (and others) is germane.
(but feel free to remove other sillier stuff)
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