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Thread: Guns 'n Coffee

  1. #16

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    But Israel is a country under attack: so I guess a case can be made.

    And the US has a tradition of personal gun ownership. It is part of it's history and culture, take it or leave it: but damn it... people walking around with guns strapped to themselves in coffeee shops or wherever, just to make a statement. It's gross.

  2. #17

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    The gun nuts would say the United States is a country under attack.

    It's being attacked, they will tell you, by The President, by the Democrats in Congress and elsewhere, by the Liberal media, and by people like yourself.

  3. #18
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    It doesn't make sense, but few emotional topics do.

    They feel threatened and insecure, even though they say they aren't. They say they can handle themselves in a fight, yet they still sport a gun to "discourage" anyone from trying.

    All you have to do is look back to the "wild west" to see how effective simple bearing of arms kept everyone "safe". It was tenuous at best, with the ones bearing the most arms being the ones everyone listened to.

    The thing that removed the need for that was our own civil investment into a (supposedly) independent third party for protection and enforcement.

    And it comes right back to the reason that the amendment was put in inthe first place. To protect us against the government and try and prevent the US from becoming as controlled as Brittain (what a totalitarian regime that turned out to be!). While the sentiment at the time was warranted, carrying it and directly applying it to todays situations makes no sense.

    There is no direct, or indirect way to adapt the INTENSION of the 2nd amendment to todays society and conditions.

    As for carrying firearms into a coffe shop. I really do not care. But as many bar owners have said, as soon as they are forced to do the same they are taking their money and investing in Funeral Parlors. (I am not joking...)

  4. #19

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    It's Starbucks for me. Adds new meaning to a coffee with a shot.
    Lots of folks carry down here. Personally, I think it's kind of silly, but I fully support their right to do so.

  5. #20
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    195, the key question would be "why?".

    So many people, when put to this, simply say "because it is my right" or "to protect myself" when both are not really applicable in todays society.

    There were many things that were "rights" that were later amended. Simply pointing at the Constitution and saying "hey, it says so" is not 100% enough, especially without the reason it was originally written for.

    I am not saying that guns should be banned. At least not in this argument, but I have never accepted "because" as a suitable answer for anything.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 195Broadway View Post
    Personally, I think it's kind of silly...
    Silly? Walking around with a gun on your waist is silly?

    (I remember back when t-shirts with stupid sayings was about as silly as it got.)

  7. #22

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    Those silly ol' guys in the SA !!

    (Couldn't stay out of their brown shirts.)

  8. #23

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    Can any one answer this: if you are wearing a gun (where it is legal) and walk into a bar, can they serve you liquor or is there a law against wearing a gun and drinking?

    (oh God let's hope so)

    --

    BTW: once in NYC, I invited someone back to my place (you know how it goes) and under his jacket he removed a gun and placed it on the dresser. Turns out he was an undercover cop. Ah NY's finest...

    Once in Italy (this story is cleaner) my doorbell got stuck and would not stop ringing. I was on the street with a friend of mine trying to get the doorbell button unstuck. 2 nicely dressed gentlemen were walking by...one of them said, "I think I can fix that". He pulled out a gun, tapped the button with it and fixed the problem.

    So there.

    --
    Last edited by Fabrizio; March 1st, 2010 at 02:45 PM.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    It's being attacked, they will tell you, by The President, by the Democrats in Congress and elsewhere, by the Liberal media, and by people like yourself.
    You forgot immigrants. Much of Western gun lore is tied up in Vigilantism.

  10. #25

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    Depends on the state.

    Gun type people done seem to have too much problem with laws against carrying in bars. They don't like being banned from restaurants the serve liquor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    Can any one answer this: if you are wearing a gun (where it is legal) and walk into a bar, can they serve you liquor or is there a law against wearing a gun and drinking?

    (oh God let's hope so)

    --

    BTW: once in NYC, I invited someone back to my place (you know how it goes) and under his jacket he removed a gun and placed it on the dresser. Turns out he was an undercover cop. Ah NY's finest...

    Once in Italy (this story is cleaner) my doorbell got stuck and would not stop ringing. I was on the street with a friend of mine trying to get the doorbell button unstuck. 2 nicely dressed gentlemen were walking by...one of them said, "I think I can fix that". He pulled out a gun, tapped the button with it and fixed the problem.

    So there.

    --

  11. #26

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    People don't trust the cops to be where they need them, when they need them.

    Criminal generally do try to avoid committing crimes when police are present. NYC has 30,000+ cops (maybe 35K-ish at the moment). People still get vicimized. The rest of the country has a lot lower density of policing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    195, the key question would be "why?".

    So many people, when put to this, simply say "because it is my right" or "to protect myself" when both are not really applicable in todays society.

    There were many things that were "rights" that were later amended. Simply pointing at the Constitution and saying "hey, it says so" is not 100% enough, especially without the reason it was originally written for.

    I am not saying that guns should be banned. At least not in this argument, but I have never accepted "because" as a suitable answer for anything.

  12. #27

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    BBMW: As far as I can tell, no one here is saying that people should not be allowed to have guns.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    Criminal generally do try to avoid committing crimes when police are present.
    Criminals tend to commit crimes in high density areas. More opportunities, and easier to disappear into the landscape.

    NYC has 30,000+ cops (maybe 35K-ish at the moment).
    The ratio of police to population is comparable to that of cities where carrying handguns is permitted.

    People still get vicimized.
    People get victimized everywhere. If anything, you could make a case for less guns=less crime.

    The rest of the country has a lot lower density of policing.
    Owning a handgun in areas where police response is delayed or nonexistent isn't the same as carrying a handgun into a retail establishment in a city. I have a place in the Adirondacks. By NYC standards, it's isolated. When the kids were little, I kept a rifle and handgun.

  14. #29
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    And now that they are older you carry an assault rifle?

    To add to your point, the crime rate is actually pretty low in NYC, and not from the proliferation of arms. For the density, I would bet cash you could find similar cop to citizen ratios that still have higher crime despite a higher private ownership ratio.

    Also, who says all criminally minded people have records? How can a cop tell a law abiding gun holder from a criminal if the criminal refuses to dress like one? If a cop stops you in a dark alley because he does not know what you are doing, and there is a high probabbility that you would have a gun because of local laws and propensity for carrying one, how cautious do you think he will be with you and EVERYTHING you do?

    Is this a reason to stop ownership or carrying? Not really, but the thing to realize is that gun ownership should not be viewd as something untouchable and somehow holy in the eyes of the Constitution.


    BTW, criminals may avoid cops when comitting crimes, but they generally do not avoid guns. Most of what they do involves them. They just make sure they are pointing theirs first.

  15. #30

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    Next question: if you wear a gun in public, must you also wear some sort of badge on your chest showing that you are authorized to carry one?

    If a cop sees you wearing a gun, is he required to ask for your ID?

    Can a non-gun-tote'n member of the public ask to see the gun-wearin'-joe's ID?

    I mean, how do I know if the guy sitting next to me is authorized to carry a gun or if it's a criminal feeling a little brazen?

    BTW: in places like Texas (as an example) can you carry guns everywhere? Even in banks? In Church? At the nursery school when you go to pick up your kids?

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