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Thread: New Durst-Fetner Building @ W 57th & 11th Ave (next to The Helena)

  1. #91

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    The first view in the renderings posted above looks deceptive; there's no depth to the rendering (intentionally?), so the scale of this thing looks much smaller than I suspect it will turn out to be.

    Similarly, in the second view, I find it hard to believe the left-hand part of the building (the masonry, or pre-fab, part) will be that thin; the power plant addition to its left is fairly thin itself, and I'm skeptical that the Ingels building will appear that svelte next to the power plant addition.

    I'll be happy if I'm wrong and will gladly eat my words, but right now I'm deeply skeptical that this will turn out as elegant as those renderings suggest. I have a feeling it'll be a clunker for the ages.

  2. #92
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    I think it will turn out well. Good architect + non-cheap developer = quality.

    Might even exceed the renderings actually.

  3. #93

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    Unlike the early releases of One57, there are plenty of high quality renderings here, and the HD video shows the building from many aspects. If the design fools the eye into thinking that the building is less massive than it is, that's a good thing.

    The one potential for disappointment I can think of is the quality of the concrete casting.

    American Concrete Industry:

    architectural concrete - "concrete that will be permanently exposed to view and therefore requires special care in selection of the concrete materials, forming, placing, and finishing
    to obtain the desired architectural appearance."

  4. #94
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    This weekend a watchful sleuth at Wired New York



    Durst Fetner Starts Digging at 625 West 57th, But Not BIG Yet


    by Pete Davies

    The gang at Durst Fetner have finally started to dig down into their mega-site at 625 West 57th Street, but the highly anticipated pyramid scheme from Bjarke Ingels Group, first made public over a year ago, still hasn't gotten the go ahead. Filings at the Department of Buildings show what's initially planned just south of the grand old IRT Powerhouse is a 5-story stump, rather than BIG's 450 foot slope of residences with great river views. Zoning diagrams for this comparatively puny 80-foot plateau showed up in mid-April, and what they reveal are plans for a big rectangular box.

    Durst reps announced in December that this spring would bring the start of construction, and they've made good on their promise. The developers also acknowledged that this site, given the zoning complexities, could possibly see something more conventional than Bjarke's BIG metal mountain rising above Joltin' Joe's stretch of riverfront roadway. But with money moving once again, we're ever hopeful that the pyramid will come to pass. This weekend a watchful sleuth at Wired New York posted the first shots of Durst's big dig out, showing a bevy of heavy equipment doing some dirty deeds on site. Right now the expanse of land at 625 West 57th is a big blank slate, with only the first markings being made, a time when everyone can be optimistic about what's to come.

    New Durst-Fetner Building @ W 57th & 11th Ave [WIred New York]

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/0...ot_big_yet.php

  5. #95
    Senior Swanky Peteynyc1's Avatar
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    To build a 5 story box here would be a huge lost opportunity! What are the "zoning complexities"? Two Trees got around it, surely Durst can as well.

  6. #96

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    ^
    It goes back to a "restrictive declaration" for the entire block that began in 2001, before the Helena was developed, when the block was rezoned from M2 to C4. The issue isn't so much about zoning size as it is about land-use. I guess that's why there's so much retail in the proposal.

    More info in this PDF document.

    I didn't read through it all.

  7. #97
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    From that pdf (from September 2011, which also has some really great diagrams, including the one below):

    A. INTRODUCTION

    DFR 57 LLC (“the applicant”) proposes a rezoning of a portion of the block bounded by West 57th and West 58th Streets, between Eleventh and Twelfth Avenues (Block 1105, the “project block”) in Manhattan, along with special permits, modifications to existing special permits and a restrictive declaration and other related land use actions, to facilitate the development of approximately 871,500 zoning square feet (zsf) (approximately 1,076,400 gross square feet [gsf]) of residential, commercial, community facility, and parking uses on the project block (Block 1105) (see Figure 1).

    [...]

    Modification of the existing Restrictive Declaration.

    The restrictive declaration currently encumbering the project block provides that the project site shall be developed in substantial conformity with the plans approved in connection with the 2001 large-scale permits as modified in 2004. As mentioned above, those plans specifically limit residential uses on the block to 520,800 zoning square feet and further limits certain retail uses (use groups 6A, 6C and 10A, except radio or television studios), to 78,000 square feet. As noted above, the eastern portion of the project block currently contains the Helena apartment building (the Eleventh Avenue tower in the 2001 FEIS). The Helena contains approximately 519,860 zsf of residential floor area and 597 residential units, which nearly maximizes the allowable residential use under the existing special permit. Therefore, the restrictive declaration would need to be modified to permit any additional residential uses on the zoning lot. The plans approved in 2001, as modified, also include, among other things, maximum envelopes for buildings on the project site, setback requirements from each of the streets, and other bulk limitations. Thus, modification of the restrictive declaration is also necessary for the proposed massing of the new buildings on the project site.

    The proposed actions listed above would increase the total permitted residential floor area on the zoning lot to 1,386,855 zsf and the restrictive declaration will limit the number of residential units on the project block to 1,460. The 1,460 units would include the existing Helena with its existing 597 units, and up to 863 new units on the project block. The height, setback, floor area, and overall site plan size of the proposed buildings on projected development site 1 and projected development site 2 would be restricted by the special permit drawings (see Figures 11 and 12).

    For the affordable housing component, it is expected that the proposed project would seek financing through the New York State Housing Finance Agency’s (HFA) “80/20” program. However, the proposed project will not undergo coordinated review with HFA.

    .Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #98
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The pdf also includes this on a "No Build" option, which relates to the 5-story base (with the image of that below) ...

    625 West 57th Street Draft Scope of Work

    THE FUTURE WITHOUT THE PROPOSED PROJECT

    The future without the proposed project—also known as the “No Build scenario”—in all technical areas assumes that none of the discretionary actions currently being sought are approved. In this case, absent those proposed actions, development will be constructed pursuant to the new building application that the applicant filed with the DOB for a development on thewestern portion of the site. This development, which is described in more detail below, conforms to the existing zoning and approvals for the project block.

    The No Build scenario will consist of new construction of approximately 331,300 gsf of office use and 67,500 gsf of retail uses and 538 public parking spaces on projected development site 1 (see Table 2). The No Build scenario building would be five stories tall (95 feet) with office uses located on floors 3 through 5 and ground floor retail (see Figures 13 and 14). Parking would be located on the second floor and in the cellar. Parking would be accessed from a midblock access drive that would extend between West 57th and West 58th Streets and from an additional midblock entrance along West 58th Street. It is assumed that the mini-storage facility would remain in its current use in the No Build scenario.

    This No Build scenario development would not maximize the allowable floor area, height, or bulk under the existing zoning and approvals because there has been no demonstrated market at this location for either commercial or light manufacturing development of the size permitted each under the previously approved project. Furthermore, as noted above the applicant has filed for a new building application with the DOB for the No Build scenario building. Therefore, this analysis conservatively assumes a smaller office and retail building in the No Build scenario than permitted under the previously approved project ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #99

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    I knew this was too good to be true, what a wasted opportunity.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundam00 View Post
    I knew this was too good to be true, what a wasted opportunity.
    I'm not following.

    It's a "wasted opportunity" for Durst to go through the approvals process to build the project? How else does he build?

  11. #101

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    no I meant there is a possibility they won't get the zoning variance for the larger building

  12. #102
    Senior Swanky Peteynyc1's Avatar
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    They should just show Bloomberg a picture of what they want to build. He will push it through.

  13. #103

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    Or just throw some gift money at his Hudson Yards project, He seems to not have any problems changing
    zoning laws in exchange for that...as evidenced on W37th 38th 39th and 40th sts

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundam00 View Post
    no I meant there is a possibility they won't get the zoning variance for the larger building
    Yeah, but that's basically true of any building in NYC not built as-of-right.

    And the issue isn't the "larger building". They could already build a huge building, but with different usage requirements. They're trying to build a unique shape, design and use.

    And this isn't really a NIMBY issue like with other buildings, so there's no evidence of major issues from the city's perspective.

  15. #105
    Senior Member DUMBRo's Avatar
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    Bloomberg has presented himself as some sort of "Patron of Starchitecture" vis a vis his chummy talk about Frank Gehry. For his own administration to fumble an easily achievable Bjarke Ingels icon would be...'unconscionable'.

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