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Thread: Vehicle Security Center (VSC) at World Trade Center

  1. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishInNYC View Post
    Cedar as a street won't exist but the VSC tops off at street level in this area. The south wall of the VSC is actually known as the T5 wall. If T5 ever happens, they will likely excavate on the south side of the VSC boundary wall for the basement levels. VSC and T5 directly abut each other.
    Will the basement of 5WTC be accessible from the VSC since they share a boundary? Or are the two structures completely autonomous? Would it be possible for pedestrians to access 5WTC's (hypothetically) elevated lobby from Liberty Park if a bridge was built? Or is the section of Liberty Park at the foot of 5WTC considered to be at grade with Cedar street?

    Sorry for all the questions, this is the part of the WTC that is most intriguing to me...

  2. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    The DB site was generally considered to be a failure at street level, the main reason that the new site 5 is rotated and pushed back to line up with 90 West.

    The Old DB site, along with the bridges across to the firehouse and the WTC plaza were part of a since discredited "second story plan" or "twenty foot plan" to build these raised plazas throughout lower Manhattan.

    That's why the South Bridge from the WFC just ends in mid-air. It was intended to connect to a similar raised plaza for a tower in the old parking lot.
    Perhaps I am one of the few avid fans of this "second story plan." I'm not sure if you've ever visited the Embarcadero Center in San Francisco, but it was built around the same time as the original WTC and Deutsche Bank building, and employs several blocks worth of elevated plaza and walkway space over the streets of the Financial District. It also has bridges from this elevated space that lead to surrounding buildings, apartment complexes, and even a park (The Embarcadero Center, to my knowledge, is the last remaining super-center to employ such an elevated spread with pedestrian skyways).

    As for the bridge to the firehouse, I've heard of it but have never seen a picture with this bridge connecting to the Deutsche Bank plaza... was it a retractable bridge only used in emergencies?

  3. #378

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    From what I understand, and as T5 is little more than a dream, you would access a north facing lobby in T5 from "street" level from Liberty Park. As of right now there is no provision to access lower levels of T5 from the VSC. The wall is 2'8" thick and solidly reinforced. Not that making an opening isn't possible but the VSC is in no way laid out with a future tie in to T5 allowed for.

  4. #379

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    ^^^ Thanks for the info Irish, I hope some new renders will be released soon.

  5. #380
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatism415 View Post

    Perhaps I am one of the few avid fans of this "second story plan." I'm not sure if you've ever visited the Embarcadero Center in San Francisco, but it was built around the same time as the original WTC and Deutsche Bank building, and employs several blocks worth of elevated plaza and walkway space over the streets of the Financial District.
    Like the original WTC, built atop a raised super block corresponding to the elevated Miller Hiway, the Embarcadero Center was built in relation to the Embarcadero Freeway that ran for a short distance along the SF waterfront.



    When I was in high school I used to hitchhike from the city to home across the bay using those freeway on ramps seen at lower left. Back then the wait for a ride was never very long, even really late at night.

    One great memory of the Embarcadero Freeway was THIS VIEW, which was always a thrill to see as you drove up the ramp from the city streets onto the elevated freeway.

    In the 1950's the plan in SF was to ring the city with freeways, and build additional freeways criss-crossing the city (a MAP of that SF plan HERE and of the waterfront freeway plan HERE).

    DOCOMOMO / NOCA has a good webpage on the Gateway Apartments (1962) that were built as part of the Golden Gateway Center, part of which includes the Embarcadero Center buildings.

    This is a terrific vid from STREETFILMS about good results from the effort to get rid of the Embarcadero Freeway after the scary 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake (with info on the removal of our own outmoded elevated hiway along the Hudson): "Lessons from San Francisco"

    And here's a time warping in-car view of a 1984 drive on the San Francisco Embarcadero Freeway:


  6. #381
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Drawing of the Golden Gateway Center pedestrian bridge (Wurster, Bernardi, and Emmons, Architect) ...


  7. #382
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    They built that bridge, didn't they?

  8. #383

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    The DB site was generally considered to be a failure at street level, the main reason that the new site 5 is rotated and pushed back to line up with 90 West.

    The Old DB site, along with the bridges across to the firehouse and the WTC plaza were part of a since discredited "second story plan" or "twenty foot plan" to build these raised plazas throughout lower Manhattan.

    That's why the South Bridge from the WFC just ends in mid-air. It was intended to connect to a similar raised plaza for a tower in the old parking lot.
    Well, at least that plan is finally coming to life.

  9. #384
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Securing Liberty

    World Trade Center site below Liberty Street takes shape.

    by Tom Stoelker


    The Vehicle Security Center's Liberty Street entrance provides access for large trucks. Courtesy Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

    As the 11th anniversary of the September 11 attacks approaches, another major design element has quietly moved forward at the World Trade Center site: the design of the St. Nicolas Greek Orthodox Church and an above grade park that will mask the Vehicle Security Center (VSC) at the southernmost edge of the site.

    Most World Trade Center maps donít include the VSC or the Greek Orthodox Church, which will sit south of Liberty Street. It was less than a year ago that the Governor Andrew Cuomo brokered an agreement that allowed the church to return to the site near its former home on Cedar Street. A decade-long battle with the Port had kept its fate in the courts.

    The doughnut-like steel latticework adjoins the VSC entryway on Liberty Street.
    TS & BK / The Architect's Newspaper
    Now, the steel latticework of the VSCís truck ramp is clearly visible from nearby towers. In addition to being the entrance and exit for deliveries, the center of the doughnut-shaped ramp will also support the 60 by 60 foot church sanctuary. Steve Plate, the Portís director of construction, said work on the park will begin this time next year. AECOM is designing an open space that will swell approximately 30 feet above the Liberty Street entrance to the VSC, creating a man-made hill on the south side of the World Trade Center site. State of the art security, engineered by Liberty Security Partners, will allow all vehicles to be x-rayed on their way in.

    The church sanctuary will rise another 56 feet above Liberty Street, a full 78 feet above the sidewalk. Church architect Nicholas P. Koutsomitis said that the Port stipulated that the church not rise above the September 11 Memorial Museumís roof plane. An additional emergency exit will drop Cedar Street below grade and into the VSC complex.

    Fritz Koenigís Sphere for Plaza Fountain, which sustained substantial damage on 9/11 and now sits in Battery Park, appears destined for the VSC site as well. It appears prominently in the renderings, and Koutsomitis confirmed that the sculpture will be included in the new park.


    View of the rooftop plaza from West Street shows St. Nicholas Church in the distance with Fritz Koenig's sculpture.

    http://www.archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=6247

  10. #385

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    Nice place for the Sphere!

  11. #386

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherpa View Post
    Nice place for the Sphere!
    Exactly, I mentioned that a while back...the sphere has no place on the plaza but here, close but not in your face, is an appropriate spot.

  12. #387

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    and it's elevation rises above the level of the memorial plaza..appropro!

  13. #388

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    That debris-battered sphere is - to me - one of the most visually compelling 'large scale' artifacts from the 911 WTC attack; with the 'I-beam cross' being the second best. I would have chosen the 'sphere' as the center piece of the museum: not the 'survivor staircase' - which I believe is intended to get the most prominent placement in the museum.

  14. #389

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    Two words in there that are important; "to me"....I think that most people will have a much bigger connection with the staircase or the likes of Paddy Brown's fire truck than a sphere that people didn't even know was part of the site. The staircase was a piece of the building, the fire truck one of the most recognizable vehicles in the world....but the sphere? "To me"....people wouldn't care. Sadly that is.

  15. #390

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    I would also choose The Sphere over The Staircase for two reasons:

    1. The Sphere was always an object unto itself, the focal point of the plaza from day one.

    2. The Staircase as it appears now, is not the way it looked immediately after 09/11. It wasn't damaged at all by the towers collapse; it was mostly destroyed by construction crews. The staircase was left standing because of the access to the IRT #1 box.


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