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Thread: Cordoba House / Islamic Center

  1. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider View Post
    Why can't they build the mosque in a neighborhood like Boro Park or Williamsburg, where they can mingle with other religious freaks who hate the modern world.
    A district for the benighted? I like this idea, but it will fill up very fast.

  2. #437

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC View Post
    Do you agree with the Imam that US foreign policy, as it existed in September 2001, was an accessory to the crime of 9/11? Do you disagree but find that statement reasonable?
    As someone with an understanding of the legal term accessory, I would not have used it in such a statement. So no, I wouldn't find it reasonable.

    Or do you find that statement repugnant?
    No.

    Do I think that US policy contributed to a causal relationship that fostered terrorism? Yes. Does that mean in any way that terrorism is justified? No. Just like if a person grew up in conditions that fostered a life of crime, he's still responsible for a murder he commits later in life. But that doesn't absolve society from trying to correct the problem.

    09/11 myopia led us to invade the wrong country.

    In answer to your question, I have no problem with mosques operating in the vicinity of Ground Zero. There are already two there. What I object to it is this $100 million, 13 story monument to Islamic triumphalism, sponsored by a 9/11 apologist and Sharia promoter.
    Still doesn't answer the question. Not two other mosques. The existing building - not $100 million, or triumphant, or 13 floors.

  3. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    "The key here is integration. Assimilation and acceptance to the point where a Mosque is no more odd than a Temple in NYC. "

    Does this mindset want to integrate?: "What Muslims want is to ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad."

    Does it want to integrate or live apart?
    You can only integrate those who want it. Otherwise it has the appearance of coercion, no?


    Btw, why is recitation of the pledge of allegiance required for citizenship?
    Last edited by ablarc; August 2nd, 2010 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #439
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Why don't some people who think it's such a terrible idea form an LLC or a non-profit and then raise the cash to buy out the current owner?

    Voila! Problem solved. Then the new owners can call the shots for the site.

  5. #440

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    ^ Expensive solution.

    Could we get the government of Saudi Arabia to contribute?

    I understand they're into charity, peace and mutual understanding.

    Isn't Saudi Arabia the elephant in the room?

  6. #441
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    I don't know. I'm a pretty progressive guy, but I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to the Islamic religion. I find it difficult to be sympathtic to any religion.

    There is no religion out there that wants to "integrate". They all want to dominate.

    Despite the fact that I'd rather see a dumpster full of sharp, contaminated needles on the site, I still cannot fathom why they want to build an Islamic "community center" in a place that is about as far as you could get from any Islamic community in the metro area.

    Regardless of whether they are coming in peace and with lofty goals, I think the site selection for the project is provocative. I think that this is an attempt to create a media firestorm and foster an anti-muslim environment that can be used in the future against the city, state, and country.

  7. #442
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    Expensive solution.
    And you think the legal route to thwart the plan will be cheap?

    The current owner paid $4,850,000 for the property in 2009. With all the chatter out there in opposition it seems that $10M could be raised in no time (just like when kids collected pennies to pay for the Statue of Liberty back in the day).

  8. #443
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    The ultimate goal of many of the oppositionists is for the site to become a National Monument. It's not as if the US Gov't can just TAKE the property FREE of charge.

    Unless we're moving to a point where any and all religious sites are deemed unconstitutional and become the Property of The People. Jeez, what a conglomeration of Communism and Neo-Conism that would be. But when the premise is so skewed the end result is often garbage.

    This situation reveals that many (both for and against Cordoba) think others (both against and for) are nothing more than garbage heads. So it's logical that in the end we'll trash ourselves to get to the goal.

  9. #444

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    I like this post: #441

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider View Post
    I don't know. I'm a pretty progressive guy, but I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to the Islamic religion. I find it difficult to be sympathtic to any religion.
    But isn't it interesting: if I say "I don't like Islam" I'll more than likely be tagged a bigot by a certain type of person.

    But if I say I don't like Catholicism I'll get applause. Or I don't like Christianity.... right on!

  10. #445
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Who do you think you are? Anne Rice?

  11. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    But isn't it interesting: if I say "I don't like Islam" I'll more than likely be tagged a bigot by a certain type of person.

    But if I say I don't like Catholicism I'll get applause. Or I don't like Christianity.... right on!

    ^ Right on the money.

    What's the explanation?

    Couldn't be ... (perish the thought!) ... some kind of bigotry!

    Could it?

  12. #447

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    She's right, and I agree with her. Problem is, folks who call themselves Christians, often aren't --especially the leaders. Christianity has been largely hijacked by the right wing, and they've adopted a platform Jesus would shun.

    Islam doesn't have that problem; their mainstream is right on the money --and Jesus would shun that too.
    Last edited by ablarc; August 2nd, 2010 at 03:20 PM.

  13. #448
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    Some might label this "moral particularism" ...

    The ADL’s Selective Sensitivity to “Sensitivities”

    THE MAGNUS ZIONIST
    By Jeremiah Haber
    JULY 31, 2010

    The Anti Defamation League has been pummeled by nearly everybody, including the liberal hawk Jonathan Chait in the New Republic and Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic, for supporting the demand of Newt Gingrich and some rightwingers to move the Cordoba Islamic Center from its proposed lower Manhattan site. Under the guise of sensitivity to the victims of the 9/11 attack, it signs on to the religious bigotry of the Christian right.

    But when it comes to the Simon Wiesenthal Center's building the Museum of Tolerance on the oldest and largest Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem, the ADL has no problem backing the legal rights of the Wiesenthal Center and turning a deaf ear to the sensitivities of the Palestinian Muslims.

    It wasn't always like that. When the Jerusalem Mammilla Cemetery controversy came up, the ADL first proposed suspending the construction of the Museum

    The ADL believes that a Museum of Tolerance in Jerusalem can be an important institution for educating against bias and for respect and understanding. We trust that the same tenets that undergird [sic] the museum's mission will be applied to finding a resolution to address the concerns of the Muslim community and the families of those whose graves have been discovered…To do less would weaken the foundation upon which a museum of tolerance stands.

    This sensitivity was at the time hailed by opponents of the Museum and was criticized, of course, by the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

    Consistent? Not exactly. The ADL later reversed its position. According to its website,

    Update: Following discussions in Israel, ADL withdrew its call for halting construction on the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum of Tolerance in Jerusalem.

    So why is it ok to be sensitive to the feelings of some victims of al-Qaeda Jihadists (not Muslims, and, by the way, Muslims were also killed in 9/11). But it is not ok to be sensitive to the feelings of Palestinian Muslims?

    Apparently for the ADL, the value of support for Israel trumps the value of religious tolerance.

    Of course, the cases themselves are not comparable. One consists of building a Jewish museum (let's face it: the story of the Jews will play a big role in the Museum of Tolerance) on the top of one of the last visibly Muslim Palestinian landmarks in West Jerusalem, expropriated from the owners against their will. The other consists of building a mosque near a site that has nothing to do with it.

    Perhaps some Christians are offended when those they consider to "Christ killers" wish to build a synagogue nearby? This sort of sensitivity we have to pay attention to?

    I am waiting to see the following retraction on the ADL website.

    Update: Following discussions in America, ADL withdrew its call to move the Islamic Center in lower Manhattan

  14. #449
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The reasoned reactions now spread to everything Muslim around the USA (no real surprise that the most reasonable of blowhards fuels the fire -- and the teabags toss in their twenty cents) ...

    Tea Partiers Freak Over Six Flags "Muslim Day"

    MOTHER JONES
    July 30, 2010

    The Six Flags amusement park chain has had its share of bad press lately, what with kids getting decapitated or having their feet chopped off on roller coaster rides, filing for bankruptcy and other Dan Snyder-related disasters. But the latest flap is more political. Tea partiers and other anti-Islam activists are freaking out about a Muslim Family Day planned for several Six Flags parks around the country on Sept. 12, the day after the World Trade Center attacks. The event, sponsored by the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), offers Muslim families a chance to hang at the amusement park and be catered to by modestly dressed employees and halal food vendors.

    While Six Flags has been holding these events since 2000 for the 42-year-old Muslim nonprofit, apparently this year, it's getting more attention, both because it falls on the weekend of Sept. 11 and also because of the ongoing controversy about the Muslim center planned a few blocks away from Ground Zero in New York. Naturally Glenn Beck, who mocked the event on his show last week, and Fox News have stoked the paranoia and opposition, giving the day ample coverage. Last week, Fox hosted guests who have suggested that the ICNA is a front for Hamas and other terrorist groups. Now, tea partiers are in a full froth about the event and there are already calls to boycott the bankrupt amusement park chain.

    On the Tea Party Patriots website, a member posted an item entitled, "Stop Six Flags Muslim Family Day" which includes a missive from Annie Hamilton, an L.A. woman leading the charge against the park. She writes:

    Muslim Day at Six Flags is inappropriate for a multitude of reasons and I'm saddened and shocked by the ignorance of the Corporate folks and by the action that now must be taken by the rest of us.

    First, Islam is NOT a religion, it is an ideology - the religious portion only encompasses 11 % (the qur'an) the rest is the Sira and Hadith and the closest parallel to Islam is the Ku Klux Klan - if that is Six Flag's idea of 'appropriate' then by all means, hold your day on September 12th but don't plan on expanding any time soon because not only will we ensure that you don't grow, we'll make sure that your parks become a thing of the past...

    STOP THE SILENCE. STOP THE NONSENCE. STOP THE MUSLIM DAY - THEY ARE NOT AMERICANS. THEY DO NOT ABIDE BY OUR CONSTITUTION - THEY ARE NOT ONE OF US - YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US - MAKE YOUR DECISION.

    None of the tea party commentaries mention that one of the men who first established the Muslim Family Day event in 2000 was himself killed in the attack on the World Trade Center. Nor do they seem to understand that the scheduling issue has far more to do with the Muslim calendar than any intentional desire to link the event to 9/11. The event is designed to celebrate the end of Ramadan, which ends on Sept. 10 this year. ICNA obviously didn't want to have its festivities on 9/11, so scheduled it for the next day. (Some tea partiers, meanwhile, have actually scheduled a big political rally on the National Mall for the anniversary of 9/11, but they don't see a big problem with that.) And far from being a "Muslim Brotherhood" front, ICNA's president is Muhammad Yunus, who won the Nobel Peace Price for his work pioneering microlending through the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh.

    Those nuances seem utterly lost on the tea partiers. So far, though, their freakout hasn't yet persuaded Six Flags to cancel. The company is either nobly standing firm in their commitment to diversity, or is in dire need of the 50,000 customers the day typically brings to their parks. Either way, a Six Flags spokeswoman told Fox News last week that the day would be nothing more than a "fun-filled family outing that typically coincides with Eid, the end of the Ramadan holiday."

    Copyright © 2010 Mother Jones and the Foundation for National Progress.

  15. #450
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    Of course Faux News gives it full coverage ...


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