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Thread: Cordoba House / Islamic Center

  1. #631

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    Uhhhh, I thought I went through this somewhere else.

  2. #632

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    ^ Sorry but count me in on those who don't get it.

    -----

    Hitler? Mussolini? Depends on whose viewpoint.

    Zippy... how do think the Native Americans (and the Slaves) viewed the powers that where in the US during their slaughter and oppression?
    As a native German i do have to protest a little bit against this claim.
    Hitler and national socialism is a quality in it self and is hardly comparable with other atrocities in history.
    The Holocaust was a genocide ... but that dosen't make all other genocides to a Holocaust!

  3. #633

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    I don't understand your point.

    Explanation, please.
    What we are, as Americans. Does it mean anything, or are we just to be reactive to the moment? See post #555 and others.

  4. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Uhhhh, I thought I went through this somewhere else.
    ^ I don't get this. Could you explain?

  5. #635
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Maybe you'll get this (once you slog through Kuhner's falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria):

    KUHNER: Radical Islam's conquest of America

    Welcome to the United States of Arabia

    The Washington Times
    By Jeffrey T. Kuhner
    August 5, 2010

    America is surrendering in the war against radical Islam. This is the real meaning behind the decision to build a 13-story mosque and Mus- lim cultural center 600 feet from the site of ground zero. A New York City panel gave the green light Tuesday for the project - despite intense resistance from many families of the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Most New Yorkers and Americans do not want this mosque erected: It will be a symbolic monument to the triumph of Islamism in the United States.

    Ground zero is more than where the World Trade Center came crashing down. It is not simply where an immense crime took place. Rather, it is the site of an act of war, hallowed ground that contains the blood of 3,000 human beings, mostly Americans, murdered on that fateful day. Like Pearl Harbor, it is a national shrine that should be dedicated to honor the memory of the victims - an eternal reminder of the atrocity perpetrated by Islamic fascism on U.S. soil.

    The Sept. 11 attacks were committed by Muslim extremists in the name of holy war against the West. They used the Koran and Islamic principles to justify their actions. Their goal was to bring jihad to America, unleashing a clash of civilizations. Across the world, Islamists seek to impose a world Muslim empire based on Shariah law. Ground zero is where the war came home to America.

    Hence, the building of this mosque is a sacrilegious act - a deliberate slap in the face to the victims, their families and all Americans. It also is why the sponsors of this project refuse to back down. They realize what is at stake: The mosque will cast a giant, dark shadow over ground zero, serving as a testament to the Islamist conquest of America. If Islamism can impose its will near the site of Sept. 11, then it can impose its will anywhere.

    The imam spearheading the initiative, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an unrepentant militant Muslim, an Islamist fellow traveler. He has said publicly that "United States policies were an accessory" to the Sept. 11 attacks. In other words, in his view, we brought the atrocities upon ourselves. He is a defender of Hamas, justifying the mass murder of innocent Jews (and Palestinians). He has called for the introduction of Shariah law courts in America. In short, he openly seeks the Islamization of America.

    Mr. Rauf is a typical Islamist hypocrite: He uses the U.S. Constitution to demand the exercise of religious freedom while advocating for Shariah law, which fuses church and state and seeks to subjugate non-Muslims. Islamists are using our freedoms in an effort to destroy our freedoms.

    Moreover, much of the $100 million in funding for the mosque is coming from Saudi Arabia. Riyadh has been aggressively supporting the building of madrassas and mosques around the world. The Saudi regime promotes Wahhabism, a particularly virulent strain of Islam. For example, Christian churches and synagogues are banned in Saudi Arabia; religious persecution is rampant. Yet no one - not New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo or any other sanctimonious liberal supporter of the ground-zero mosque - has bothered to investigate the sources of Mr. Rauf's funding. Are Wahhabists behind the mosque? If so, it probably will become a forum for hatred and extremism - just like a Saudi-funded mosque in Northern Virginia where the al-Qaeda-linked cleric Anwar al-Awlaki preached the virtues of jihadism.

    Instead of addressing these issues, liberals such as Mr. Bloomberg are wrapping themselves in the flag of religious freedom. "The World Trade Center site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts," he said. "But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said no to a mosque in Lower Manhattan."

    Mr. Rauf also claims that his goal is an eminently tolerant one: to foster "cross-cultural" understanding and "interfaith" dialogue. Besides, as ground-zero mosque supporters argue, the cultural center will be built not on the site of the World Trade Center, but two blocks away.

    Yet its proximity is precisely the problem. The ground-zero mosque infuriates so many people because the building in which it will be housed was physically damaged by debris from the crumbling towers during the Sept. 11 assault. The location was part of the wreckage; it falls within the battle zone, the immediate circumference where the attacks occurred. This is why this issue exacerbates so many emotional wounds.

    Religious freedom is a red herring. Muslims are free to build mosques anywhere else in New York City - or America, for that matter. If Mr. Rauf were truly serious about fostering peaceful religious coexistence, he could - and would - pick any other more ideal location in a residential community. The backlash has been furious and passionate; the anger and rage among the families of the victims have been palpable. Their feelings have been discarded. They have been ignored - even lectured to. Mr. Rauf could end all of this through a gesture of respect and goodwill. Yet he will not - and that speaks volumes. His ideological agenda trumps compassion and common sense.

    The battle over the ground-zero mosque is more than another battle in the heated culture wars. It is a watershed moment: the point at which liberal multiculturalism capitulated to the relentless march of political Islam. Muslim radicals around the world rightly will view it as a triumph over the feckless American infidel: Even the site of their deadliest attack against America is not free from Islam's looming presence. This event signifies the loss - the defeat - of American will and purpose in the struggle against jihad.

    It is not coincidental that the mosque's name, Cordoba House, takes after the city in southern Spain that marked one of radical Islam's greatest conquests in Europe during the Middle Ages. Cordoba was a major center in the global caliphate being erected by the rampaging Islamists of the time - the very caliphate that Osama bin Laden and his allies seek to restore. A giant mosque was built upon the ruins of a Catholic church. For Islamists, erecting mosques on defeated territories is a sign of subjugation - the submission of infidels to Allah's rule.

    The sad irony is that most of the victims of Islamic fascism have been Muslims - fellow co-religionists - slaughtered by medieval barbarians. The ground-zero mosque disgraces them as much as everyone else. Mr. Bloomberg could have done the right thing and opposed the building of the mosque. Yet his actions show that liberalism is defenseless in the face of Islamic supremacism - as it is all across Europe.

    The United States of Arabia has arrived.

    Jeffrey T. Kuhner is a columnist at The Washington Times and president of the Edmund Burke Institute, a Washington think tank. He is the host of "The Kuhner Show" on WTNT 570-AM (www.talk570.com) from 5 to 7 p.m.

    © Copyright 2010 The Washington Times, LLC

  6. #636

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    I've been a lifelong liberal, but I believe I'm starting to detect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    ... falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria ...
    ... on the wrong side.

    It's a real turn off.

    Give it a rest, lofter; you've made your views clear, and methinks now you protest too much. It damages your case.

  7. #637
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    I wish they would build this mosque thingy right next to the Mormon Church on 66th Street. It could incite a really fun war between burka babes and their unkempt hubbies and the children of the magic underpants cult. Winner of this round moves on to fight the fashion-free yarmulke set in Hasidic Boro Park.

    Gentlemen, start your engines.

  8. #638

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    Lofter: as a person who is old enough to remember the late 60's, 1970's...the woman's movement... the gay rights thing....peace and love and the rejection of authority... can you blame me if I tell you that I don't like Islam? Islam with it's pecular mix of religion and law?

    I don't like it because too many take it too seriously. Even if it's only 10 percent of the 25 gazillion peace-loving Muslims in this world, it's way too many.

    Catholicism and most of the other Christian religions are neutered dogs in comparison.

    And can't I rake this Imam fellow over the coals? I thought that's what we're supposed to do with such "spiritual authorities".

    My God, Ratzinger was a friggin' Nazi for many on the Left...because he was required to join a Nazi boy-scout troop as a lad. The Left went nuts over that.

    But we're supposed to believe whatever this Imam says.

    And that ridiculous piece by the Imamam writen for the Huffington Post with it's twisted analogies and false equivalencies.... my God....if any Christian leader had written that you would be howling.

    And let me throw this in: people watch a video of Irshad Manji vs. some up-tight chick with a cloth on her head spouting vague poll numbers.... yet Manji, the cool Lesbian calling for religious reform for chrissakes, is called a "polemicist ".

    Go figure.

    They closed down another Mosque here in Europe yesterday. And in Italy's major cities Imam after Imam have been expelled for hate speech.

    Do you mind if I'm a little skeptical about Imam Fasul?

    Now about that Washington Times article... among the falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria....there is truth too.
    Last edited by Fabrizio; August 9th, 2010 at 06:44 PM.

  9. #639
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    It's a real turn off.

    Give it a rest, lofter; you've made your views clear, and methinks now you protest too much. It damages your case.
    Lofter, isn't it ironic!


    Please carry on with the valiant attempt to balance the haters. They're so damned relentless.

  10. #640

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    Lofter, isn't it ironic!
    It's my observation that Lofter is more an American than anyone on this forum.
    .

  11. #641
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Certainly more American (and definitely more a New Yorker!) than the people who've gotten their panties all in a bunch over this thing (from all the way across mountains and oceans even!)

  12. #642

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    It's my observation that Lofter is more an American than anyone on this forum.
    .
    ^ Oh my gosh Lofter.... I knew there was a reason I never liked you.

  13. #643
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    cario mio ^ vaffanculo

  14. #644
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    I've been a lifelong liberal, but I believe I'm starting to detect ...

    Originally Posted by lofter1
    ... falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria ...
    ... on the wrong side.
    I included my preface to forewarn folks who might not be aware of the Geller-ization of this topic, where lies are retold to the point that many of them are now fully accepted as gospel.

    [ If the shoe fits ]

    Did you bother to really read Kusher's piece? By now you should be able to detect the falsehoods, since his side repeats them over and over. I won't bother to reiterate the index of misstatements regarding the place and / or history. Clearly the brainwashing is working on some, as the BS is bought, once again, hook line and sinker.

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    It's a real turn off.
    Sorry my friend, but I'm not here to turn you on.

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Give it a rest, lofter; you've made your views clear, and methinks now you protest too much. It damages your case.
    Well, if we're talking about giving damaged views a rest, please ... be my guest.

  15. #645
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Con Ed Will Not Block the Ground Zero Mosque, Despite Reports

    By Julie Shapiro

    Con Edison owns a building that would be torn down for the Ground Zero mosque but cannot stop the project.


    Con Edison owns the former Burlington Coat Factory building at 49-51 Park Place but will not stop Soho Properties from building a mosque there.

    LOWER MANHATTAN — Con Edison said Monday that it cannot stop the planned 13-story mosque and community center from rising near Ground Zero, despite earlier reports to the contrary.

    Although Con Edison owns 49-51 Park Place, one of the buildings that would be torn down to build the Ground Zero mosque, the utility does not have legal authority over what happens to the site, Con Edison said in a statement.

    The New York Post reported Sunday that Con Ed’s ownership of 49-51 Park Place could be an obstacle for the Islamic center.

    However, Soho Properties, the mosque's developer, signed a long-term lease on the building last year and “has rights to use, alter, demolish or renovate the building,” Con Ed said.

    The utility plans to eventually sell the former substation building to Soho Properties, as long as the developer pays a fee set by an independent appraiser.

    Regardless of whether the sale goes through, plans for the Islamic center, called Park51, can still move forward under the current lease, which lasts until 2071, Con Ed said.

    “We are following our legal obligations under the lease,” Con Ed said. “We will not allow other considerations to enter into this transaction.”

    According to city records, Sharif El-Gamal, CEO of Soho Properties, paid $700,000 last year to take over the lease on the Park Place building, which most recently housed the Burlington Coat Factory and was heavily damaged during the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

    El-Gamal also bought the adjacent 45-47 Park Place for $4.85 million and plans to knock down both buildings to make way for the new center.

    A spokesman for El-Gamal did not respond to a request for comment.

    http://dnainfo.com/20100809/downtown...#ixzz0wCBXQOdK

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