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Thread: Cordoba House / Islamic Center

  1. #631

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    Quote Originally Posted by odiug View Post
    If the allegations against the Developers of the Mosque are true, than is this in it self no argument against a Mosque at Ground Zero but an argument against this Mosque at Ground Zero.
    Or the mosque further outside of Ground Zero. Rauf has been in Tribeca for over 25 years. Why no protests?

    I'll answer that myself: It's boring. We need a tragic event to politicize.

  2. #632

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    Yes ... but their raise to power had nothing to do with religious freedom or the lack of it

  3. #633

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Nothing to do with religious leaders. Just what the government becomes.
    I don't understand your point.

    Explanation, please.

  4. #634
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    It's going to be a long slog to November ...

    It's All About Who Hates The 'Ground Zero Mosque' More
    In Republicans' NY-GOV Race (VIDEO)


    TALKING POINTS MEMO
    By Jillian Rayfield
    August 9, 2010

    They say all politics is local, and it seems that in the race for the Republican nomination for New York governor, candidates Carl Paladino and Rick Lazio are taking that quite literally. As the September 14 primary approaches, Paladino and Lazio are devoting a whole lot of their attention to opposing the Cordoba House Muslim community center, which was cleared for construction a few blocks from Ground Zero last week.

    So if this is a central issue of the Republican primary, the question then becomes: Who hates the "Ground Zero mosque" more? Let's look at the evidence...

    Self-financed candidate Paladino says the Cordoba House is "about the Islamists wanting to illustrate that they have conquered America by taking down the World Trade Center. It's a claim of triumph."

    He's also claimed that "they're going to put on a wall in this whatever they're building, they're going to put on the wall the faces of the men who flew those aircraft into that building."

    But in a rather combative appearance on MSNBC last week, Paladino said that his opposition has "nothing to do with religion. Nothing to do with freedom of religion. It's ideology." The Cordoba House is an "intrusion on the memories of the thousands of people that died at Ground Zero," he added.

    Here's the full interview, which is worth watching just to hear guest-host Cenk Uygur call Paladino "paranoid":



    Lazio, who has referred to the Cordoba House as a "trophy mosque," appeared on a local Fox affiliate to make a similar it's-not-about-religion claim: "This is not about religion. There are many places for Muslims to pray throughout the city."

    "But this site here is so close to Ground Zero," he said, adding that "it is sacred ground."

    Watch:



    Paladino has recently used the issue to fundraise for his campaign, hitting Democratic nominee Andrew Cuomo in an email for supporting construction on the Cordoba House:

    Incredibly, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, who is a candidate for Governor, supports this proposed Islamic Mosque. I think this is an insult to every American murdered on September 11, 2001 and a painful insult to those who lost family members on that horrific day.
    Paladino adds in the email:

    The proposed mosque at Ground Zero can be stopped. Taxes and spending can be cut, and corruption can be swept from Albany- if you will help me.

    You can use your Visa or MasterCard to make a contribution now. Won't you send $200, $100, $75 or $50? Even a contribution of $25 would be a big help.

    Lazio has repeatedly released statements asking Cuomo to investigate the funding behind the Cordoba House. "In the absence of leadership from Andrew Cuomo I will continue to ask the questions about this project that need to be answered to insure the public safety of New Yorkers," he wrote.

    Following the Anti-Defamation League's annoucement of opposition to the Cordoba House, Lazio again called on Cuomo: "Andrew Cuomo must show the same political courage demonstrated by the Anti-Defamation League."

    And then there was his idea to debate Cuomo on the Cordoba House -- and only on the Cordoba House: "The time to debate the Cordoba Mosque proposed to be built on the sacred land at Ground Zero is now," Lazio wrote in a statement, challenging Cuomo to defend his position, which Lazio calls "so wrong."

    Then, last week, Paladino took the issue to its maybe-logical extreme: He released a TV ad that hits Cuomo for supporting the Cordoba House's construction, saying that "a mosque makes a mockery of those who died there." Paladino also promises to "use the power of eminent domain to stop the mosque, and use the site as a war memorial, instead of a monument to those who attacked our country."

    Paladino has previously claimed that he would use eminent domain to stop construction if elected, but current Gov. David Paterson had his legal team look into the issue, and they concluded such a challenge wouldn't hold up in court.

    Here's the ad:



    And Lazio tried to get an even bigger audience, calling on President Obama to ask for transparency, and adding that he was "disappointed to see the comments by Robert Gibbs yesterday, signaling that your Administration does not wish to engage in this issue of national importance."

    A recent Q poll shows Paladino gaining some ground on Lazio, though Lazio still leads 39%-23%.

    2010 TPM Media LLC. All Rights Reserved.

  5. #635

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Religious freedom in the US is one reason we've never had a (....) Mussolini.

    At least not yet.
    ^ Sorry but count me in on those who don't get it.

    -----

    Hitler? Mussolini? Depends on whose viewpoint.

    Zippy... how do think the Native Americans (and the Slaves) viewed the powers that where in the US during their slaughter and oppression?
    Last edited by Fabrizio; August 9th, 2010 at 01:40 PM.

  6. #636

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Rauf has been in Tribeca for over 25 years. Why no protests?
    Uh....buiding a showy, brand-new, 100,000 million dollar, 13-story Islamic Center so close to ground zero will tend to put you in the lime-light.

  7. #637

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    Uhhhh, I thought I went through this somewhere else.

  8. #638

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    ^ Sorry but count me in on those who don't get it.

    -----

    Hitler? Mussolini? Depends on whose viewpoint.

    Zippy... how do think the Native Americans (and the Slaves) viewed the powers that where in the US during their slaughter and oppression?
    As a native German i do have to protest a little bit against this claim.
    Hitler and national socialism is a quality in it self and is hardly comparable with other atrocities in history.
    The Holocaust was a genocide ... but that dosen't make all other genocides to a Holocaust!

  9. #639

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    I don't understand your point.

    Explanation, please.
    What we are, as Americans. Does it mean anything, or are we just to be reactive to the moment? See post #555 and others.

  10. #640

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Uhhhh, I thought I went through this somewhere else.
    ^ I don't get this. Could you explain?

  11. #641
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Maybe you'll get this (once you slog through Kuhner's falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria):

    KUHNER: Radical Islam's conquest of America

    Welcome to the United States of Arabia

    The Washington Times
    By Jeffrey T. Kuhner
    August 5, 2010

    America is surrendering in the war against radical Islam. This is the real meaning behind the decision to build a 13-story mosque and Mus- lim cultural center 600 feet from the site of ground zero. A New York City panel gave the green light Tuesday for the project - despite intense resistance from many families of the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Most New Yorkers and Americans do not want this mosque erected: It will be a symbolic monument to the triumph of Islamism in the United States.

    Ground zero is more than where the World Trade Center came crashing down. It is not simply where an immense crime took place. Rather, it is the site of an act of war, hallowed ground that contains the blood of 3,000 human beings, mostly Americans, murdered on that fateful day. Like Pearl Harbor, it is a national shrine that should be dedicated to honor the memory of the victims - an eternal reminder of the atrocity perpetrated by Islamic fascism on U.S. soil.

    The Sept. 11 attacks were committed by Muslim extremists in the name of holy war against the West. They used the Koran and Islamic principles to justify their actions. Their goal was to bring jihad to America, unleashing a clash of civilizations. Across the world, Islamists seek to impose a world Muslim empire based on Shariah law. Ground zero is where the war came home to America.

    Hence, the building of this mosque is a sacrilegious act - a deliberate slap in the face to the victims, their families and all Americans. It also is why the sponsors of this project refuse to back down. They realize what is at stake: The mosque will cast a giant, dark shadow over ground zero, serving as a testament to the Islamist conquest of America. If Islamism can impose its will near the site of Sept. 11, then it can impose its will anywhere.

    The imam spearheading the initiative, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an unrepentant militant Muslim, an Islamist fellow traveler. He has said publicly that "United States policies were an accessory" to the Sept. 11 attacks. In other words, in his view, we brought the atrocities upon ourselves. He is a defender of Hamas, justifying the mass murder of innocent Jews (and Palestinians). He has called for the introduction of Shariah law courts in America. In short, he openly seeks the Islamization of America.

    Mr. Rauf is a typical Islamist hypocrite: He uses the U.S. Constitution to demand the exercise of religious freedom while advocating for Shariah law, which fuses church and state and seeks to subjugate non-Muslims. Islamists are using our freedoms in an effort to destroy our freedoms.

    Moreover, much of the $100 million in funding for the mosque is coming from Saudi Arabia. Riyadh has been aggressively supporting the building of madrassas and mosques around the world. The Saudi regime promotes Wahhabism, a particularly virulent strain of Islam. For example, Christian churches and synagogues are banned in Saudi Arabia; religious persecution is rampant. Yet no one - not New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo or any other sanctimonious liberal supporter of the ground-zero mosque - has bothered to investigate the sources of Mr. Rauf's funding. Are Wahhabists behind the mosque? If so, it probably will become a forum for hatred and extremism - just like a Saudi-funded mosque in Northern Virginia where the al-Qaeda-linked cleric Anwar al-Awlaki preached the virtues of jihadism.

    Instead of addressing these issues, liberals such as Mr. Bloomberg are wrapping themselves in the flag of religious freedom. "The World Trade Center site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts," he said. "But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said no to a mosque in Lower Manhattan."

    Mr. Rauf also claims that his goal is an eminently tolerant one: to foster "cross-cultural" understanding and "interfaith" dialogue. Besides, as ground-zero mosque supporters argue, the cultural center will be built not on the site of the World Trade Center, but two blocks away.

    Yet its proximity is precisely the problem. The ground-zero mosque infuriates so many people because the building in which it will be housed was physically damaged by debris from the crumbling towers during the Sept. 11 assault. The location was part of the wreckage; it falls within the battle zone, the immediate circumference where the attacks occurred. This is why this issue exacerbates so many emotional wounds.

    Religious freedom is a red herring. Muslims are free to build mosques anywhere else in New York City - or America, for that matter. If Mr. Rauf were truly serious about fostering peaceful religious coexistence, he could - and would - pick any other more ideal location in a residential community. The backlash has been furious and passionate; the anger and rage among the families of the victims have been palpable. Their feelings have been discarded. They have been ignored - even lectured to. Mr. Rauf could end all of this through a gesture of respect and goodwill. Yet he will not - and that speaks volumes. His ideological agenda trumps compassion and common sense.

    The battle over the ground-zero mosque is more than another battle in the heated culture wars. It is a watershed moment: the point at which liberal multiculturalism capitulated to the relentless march of political Islam. Muslim radicals around the world rightly will view it as a triumph over the feckless American infidel: Even the site of their deadliest attack against America is not free from Islam's looming presence. This event signifies the loss - the defeat - of American will and purpose in the struggle against jihad.

    It is not coincidental that the mosque's name, Cordoba House, takes after the city in southern Spain that marked one of radical Islam's greatest conquests in Europe during the Middle Ages. Cordoba was a major center in the global caliphate being erected by the rampaging Islamists of the time - the very caliphate that Osama bin Laden and his allies seek to restore. A giant mosque was built upon the ruins of a Catholic church. For Islamists, erecting mosques on defeated territories is a sign of subjugation - the submission of infidels to Allah's rule.

    The sad irony is that most of the victims of Islamic fascism have been Muslims - fellow co-religionists - slaughtered by medieval barbarians. The ground-zero mosque disgraces them as much as everyone else. Mr. Bloomberg could have done the right thing and opposed the building of the mosque. Yet his actions show that liberalism is defenseless in the face of Islamic supremacism - as it is all across Europe.

    The United States of Arabia has arrived.

    Jeffrey T. Kuhner is a columnist at The Washington Times and president of the Edmund Burke Institute, a Washington think tank. He is the host of "The Kuhner Show" on WTNT 570-AM (www.talk570.com) from 5 to 7 p.m.

    Copyright 2010 The Washington Times, LLC

  12. #642

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    I've been a lifelong liberal, but I believe I'm starting to detect ...

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    ... falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria ...
    ... on the wrong side.

    It's a real turn off.

    Give it a rest, lofter; you've made your views clear, and methinks now you protest too much. It damages your case.

  13. #643
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    I wish they would build this mosque thingy right next to the Mormon Church on 66th Street. It could incite a really fun war between burka babes and their unkempt hubbies and the children of the magic underpants cult. Winner of this round moves on to fight the fashion-free yarmulke set in Hasidic Boro Park.

    Gentlemen, start your engines.

  14. #644

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    Lofter: as a person who is old enough to remember the late 60's, 1970's...the woman's movement... the gay rights thing....peace and love and the rejection of authority... can you blame me if I tell you that I don't like Islam? Islam with it's pecular mix of religion and law?

    I don't like it because too many take it too seriously. Even if it's only 10 percent of the 25 gazillion peace-loving Muslims in this world, it's way too many.

    Catholicism and most of the other Christian religions are neutered dogs in comparison.

    And can't I rake this Imam fellow over the coals? I thought that's what we're supposed to do with such "spiritual authorities".

    My God, Ratzinger was a friggin' Nazi for many on the Left...because he was required to join a Nazi boy-scout troop as a lad. The Left went nuts over that.

    But we're supposed to believe whatever this Imam says.

    And that ridiculous piece by the Imamam writen for the Huffington Post with it's twisted analogies and false equivalencies.... my God....if any Christian leader had written that you would be howling.

    And let me throw this in: people watch a video of Irshad Manji vs. some up-tight chick with a cloth on her head spouting vague poll numbers.... yet Manji, the cool Lesbian calling for religious reform for chrissakes, is called a "polemicist ".

    Go figure.

    They closed down another Mosque here in Europe yesterday. And in Italy's major cities Imam after Imam have been expelled for hate speech.

    Do you mind if I'm a little skeptical about Imam Fasul?

    Now about that Washington Times article... among the falsehoods, hyperbole and hysteria....there is truth too.
    Last edited by Fabrizio; August 9th, 2010 at 05:44 PM.

  15. #645
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    It's a real turn off.

    Give it a rest, lofter; you've made your views clear, and methinks now you protest too much. It damages your case.
    Lofter, isn't it ironic!


    Please carry on with the valiant attempt to balance the haters. They're so damned relentless.

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