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Thread: New York Giants

  1. #166

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    Barber had some difficulty holding on to the ball early in his career, but by the time he retired (arguably still in his prime), he was a top-tier,multi-facted back in the mold of Marshall Faulk. In fact de was arguably one of the best two or three all-around backs in the conference

    And ler's not forget the 2008 Earth,Wind and Fire trio, two of whom gained over 1000 yds, and who really defined the team's smash mouth persona. Even the superbowl winning 2007 team featured the same backs who combined for about 1800 yds rushing. Not too shabby.

    Even after losing Ward and relegating Jacobs to a less important role over the following years, Bradshaw remained a very effective hard-running back up until last year. . He may not have had blazing speed, but than again neither does Ray Rice. He does OK.

    Of course, he is not Bilal Powell or anything ...
    Last edited by eddhead; September 25th, 2013 at 05:18 PM.

  2. #167

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    The evolution of Barber's career mirrors rule changes that has made the NFL more QB focused. The old axiom - to win a championship, you must run the ball and/or stop the run - has been somewhat diluted.

    But even during the time of a rushing oriented league, the way teams set up their running game was part of an overall strategy. During the Parcell years, the Giants were about ball control, time of possession, and defense. RBs were expected to protect the ball and pick up 4 yds/carry. You'd take that all day. Drives were long, which kept the defense off the field. In turn, the defense would dominate and get the offense back out on the field. Scores were low.

    Now, the running game defeats the primary focus of the defense - get to the QB, either directly or by coverage.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    The most excruciating play of game 3 was the hold by Beatty on the TD run. The play was designed to go off LG. Beatty did his job by pushing out the DE. The hole was there, maybe for a short gain. If the RB saw an opening around left end, Beatty should have trusted the decision and allowed the play to continue.

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    During the Parcell years, the Giants were about ball control, time of possession, and defense. RBs were expected to protect the ball and pick up 4 yds/carry.
    Otis Anderson comes to mind.

    The Giants of that era pounded to ball down your throat. Big powerful running backs ran behind a huge powerful O-line. I mean Jumbo Elliott?? What a great name - a name that typified the Giant's brand of football. Even thier TE, Bavaro, was an absolute monstor.

    Their mantra was ground control, but the Giants of that era were not afraid to take a chance downfield. I always felt that the difference between a Phil Simms (who I think is supremely underated) and Joe Montana was the style of offense they played in. For the most part, the 49ers threw safe, short to medium passes, outof the west coast, and let their receivors accumulate yardage after the catch. The Giants were conservative, but when they threw the ball, they threw it downfield. That downfield threat kept the defense from loading up the box.

    The Giants of that era, and the Joe Gibbs Redskins before them were the epitome of smash-mouth football; the masters of the genre. See the Packers of the 60's with Jimmy Taylor and the power sweep as well.

    I agree that for the most part, todays' running game is really designed to keep the pass rush honest. Oddly (from you perspective) The Jets teams of a few years back - the ones that went to the AFC finals two years running, were an exception. They played real smash-mouth football, controlled the clock, held onto the ball, and when they did throw it, threw it downfield. I always felt that Ryan channelled his inner Parcels (at least in terms of offensive philosophy) with those teams.

    Now, the running game defeats the primary focus of the defense - get to the QB, either directly or by coverage.
    Despite that, the hallmark of premier defenses in this league is thier ability to stop the run. You simply cannot be a great NFL defense if you cannot prevent the run.
    Last edited by eddhead; September 26th, 2013 at 10:16 AM.

  4. #169

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    Well, there's always next year.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishInNYC View Post
    Well, there's always next year.
    I don't think so, Giants aren't going anywhere for a long time

  6. #171

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    NFL teams turn around quickly.

  7. #172

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    ^Case in point the last team to drub the Giants. The Chiefs doubled their win total from 2012...in September.

  8. #173

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    I really don't know what to make of this team. Yes, without Breadshaw, you figured they might struggle a bit running the ball, but ourside of Wilson the guys they have running the ball are borderline practice squad guys now. And what the hell happened to their O and D Lines?

    Zipp and Irish are right, teams turn around quickly in the NFL (altough I would remind Irish that the Chiefs are coming off several consective sub-par seasons and have had a chance to rebuild thru the draft), but this smells differently to me. It seems like it is the whole core of the team; O and D lines though to be stregnths coming in suddenly look old and slow.

    It is hard to replace your entire line overnight; especially on offense where it takes time to gell

    Unless those guys suddenly step up, this could prove to be a sustaining problem

  9. #174

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    The problem with the O-line right now isn't that they're old; they're not old enough.

    The oldest lineman playing last Sunday was Boothe (30).

    The others:

    Beatty (28)
    Cordle (26)
    Brewer (25)
    Mosley (24)
    Pugh (23)

    Usually, inexperienced players are slotted in with veterans, but right now they are the line. Not only are they individually inexperienced, but they haven't played many games as a unit. The TV analysts did a decent job highlighting the problem. There was one pass play where Beatty was engaged with the DE and the right side of the pocket was OK. LG Brewer had no one to block, so he moved left to help Beatty, who didn't need it. If he held his ground, he might have put a block on the man who eventually sacked Eli.

    That's just a matter of experience.

  10. #175

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    I will give you Mosely and Pugh, but the other guys have all had a few years in the legue now. It is interesting you bring up Beatty and Booth, both of whom started last year, and maybe the year before as well. I know thier right side is banged up, but I believed the left side would be pretty solid. Right now, they all suck,.\\

    As for my previous comment, they may be young, but they seem old, slow, and sluggish. I get that O-Lines take time to gel or "play as a unit" but that is not what I am gettng from this. And for the life of me, I can't figure out the defense.
    Last edited by eddhead; October 1st, 2013 at 11:13 AM.

  11. #176

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    It not so much how many years they have as how long they've played as a unit.

    They aren't getting beat on physicality as much as technique, stunts and such. Missed assignments.

    They might get better game by game, but there isn't time for it.

    -------------------------------------------------

    The defense played well on Sunday, especially the LBs. They executed the game plan and stopped the run. Kept the score close, considering the total time they were on the field. Should have gone into halftime tied at 10. Caused 3 turnovers for a team that had none going into the game, but the Giants got no points off them.

    As it was, they were only down 10-7 late in the third quarter. In another situation, without all the other problems over four games, you could zero in on one play that turned the game at that point. 3rd and l17 and Cruz catches a pass and is down outside the 30, but a foot or so short of the marker. The right move was to punt. Weatherford has fallen off a bit this year, less hang time. He was told to kick it out of bounds. Instead, he puts a foot into it and kicks it 60 yards, but right to McCluster.

    That TD was the end of the game.

  12. #177

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    Ironically Pugh, the youngest, played very well on Sunday up against Justin Houston.

  13. #178
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    Thumbs down

    It was like effing bizzaro world Eli today in the 4th... First two ints were tough luck cuz his facemask got held and cruz did not hustle to the ball.... The third one was just a braindead throw. Eli's overwhelimingly high number of pick indicate to me tha teams are preping for him and he is too predictable. He has to adjust....

    Hopefully next year Giants will have better luck signing & drafting NFL-caliber offensive linemen and running backs. In the likely event we get the #1 pick, gimme the best available o-lineman in the first 2 rounds....

  14. #179
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    Seems like Manning has basically thrown in the towel

  15. #180

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    Some of those interceptions were unfathonable.

    Still far from 'thowing in the towel" (I don't think Manning has that in him), I think he is trying to do too much. Right now, the Giants have no ground game to speak of, and defenses are teeing off on the rush. Manning is constantly back-peddeling. That doesn't explain ALL the interceptions, some of which really made me shake my head, but the groundings, taken together with the interceptions are indications he is tryng to single-handedly win games. As good a player as he is, he is not THAT good.

    Who'ld have thought this team would be literally imploding at this point in the season. And they have the Bears on Thursday Night. Good luck with that.

    I dumped Eli two weeks ago, and was lucky enough to pick up Philip Rivers, if you can imagine. What a Godsend.

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