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Thread: Knicks matter again...

  1. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    I mean, do you think Melo is clutch?
    Anthony had an outstanding season, and performed at high levels throuhout game 6 up to the 4th qtr. You can attribute that to not being clutch, or just plain being tired. He played 44 minutes or so - who does that?

    My bigger issue with him is he tries to hard to carry the game on his shoulders. He is a superior player when he is not only getting his shots, but moving the ball and creating shots for others. It may not be fair to compare him with James, but at the end of the day, I really DO feel he has that kind of talent at least on offense. But sometimes I think he feels like he can fix things by going 1 x 5. There are times when he is taking the ball up from half-court and you just know, he is going to take the shot no matter what. That is not good. Or he'll decide at the last possible moment while hanging in the air that this is not going to work and he'll shovel a bullet pass from 3 feet to Chandler who can't handle it.

    He has to work harder to help the team create a flow on offense.

  2. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    Melo has been very weak offensively in the fourth quater; even though he really hadn't been double teamed. His deficiencies make defensive stops more possbile as drawing a double team will strain team defense.
    This sounds made up to me, so I'll just state:

    eFG% for most scorers drops off in the 4th quarter. They get tired.

    This past season, 1st quarter and 4th quarter: Melo's numbers dropped .055. LeBron James' numbers dropped .071.

    It was unquestionably one of the best/clutchest blocks you will ever see, but Melo enabled it. Its a classic second guess to say that he shouldn't have dunked,
    You should stop right here.

    But you didn't.

    my point is that it is not his strongest highest percentage shot when he is close to the basket; boucing it off the backboard or lobbing it is.
    Melo's percentage splits by shot type:

    Dunk: .932
    Hook: .800
    Tip: .475
    Jump: .410
    Layup: .477

    The fact that I had to look up this stuff, when just the video would have convinced anyone who knows basketball, leads me to conclude that you're just saying anything to justify a conclusion. 20/20 hindsight again.

    Do you think that maybe Ray Felton, the PG, the one who usually has the ball in his hands, only took seven shots, made none of them, was a factor?

    Melo played 42 minutes. He poured in 39 points. One of Smith's two 3-pointers, his best look of the night, came on a drive by Melo who spotted him setting up cross court. Trouble was that Smith was only 2-9 from long range. Nothing Melo can do about that.

    I mentioned Kevin Durant down the stretch without Westbrook. I guess he sucks in the 4th quarter too.

    I don't know what else to say to you.

  3. #228
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Irrespective of percentage of success as there are different variables (like having a seven footer front of him) that make them more or less successful (u talk about me making up stuff and you throw a whole bunch of numbers up without citing them) dunking is not the type of attempt he tries the most at that range especially when there is someone in front of him (is there a stat for contested dunk attempts?).

    I understand that u never change ur mind zip I aint trying to. The first inclination or thought that pops into ur head is of course always infallible as you always take the conversation on this contortion of numbers and figure to thump ur chest and "prove" ur right. Whatever.

    U are probably going to contort this too but Ill take another stab at it since u didnt bother to answer it the first time: Is Melo clutch in the fourth quater?
    Last edited by TREPYE; May 21st, 2013 at 10:32 PM.

  4. #229

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    You don't believe what you see, and now you don't believe the damn numbers? I didn't "contort" the numbers, I just listed them as they appear. I knew you would refuse to understand that the high percentage move for a forward with a clear lane to the hoop is a dunk. He didn't have a "seven footer in front of him." Hibbert ran over for the block, a move that often results in a foul call. It was a bang-bang play.

    I take it back. You don't know basketball. Your posts here are always after the fact.

    Argue with someone who does:
    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead
    That was a great block. There is just no other way around it.
    He also answered your question about clutch. Since you expect the worst from me, why the hell should I accommodate you.

    I'm done with you.

  5. #230
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    I never meant to said u contort the numbers themselves (should have said "with" numbers not "of"; btw I never got citations) but rather contort the argument using numbers that do not get to the heart of my point. Its absurdly obvious that dunks are high percentage shots but some players can overpower defenders with dunks better than others. Anthony aint one of them. This demostrated lack of judment at a critical point in the game denotes in part his lack of clutchness in the fourth quarter. But not only do you not answer the original inquiry but you shirk from it....
    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I'm done with you.
    Boo-hoo...

  6. #231

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    Look at the video.

    Since I don't think you know basketball, the lane is 16 feet wide. When Melo spins around George and dribbles once before going up, he's at the edge of the lane. Hibert is standing at the 12 foot line. So they are 14 feet apart, maybe further since Melo is closer to the baseline.

    That's not challenging someone standing in your way. Hibert closed the distance and made a great play without fouling. Melo also had George on his back trailing the play.

    I get your point, but it has nothing to do with what happened. Watch the video. Look at it frame by frame. I don't know how many games you've seen in person, but if you sit behind the hoop you realize that the court isn't as compressed as it looks on TV.

    The numbers I posted have nothing to do with any twisting of any argument. I just thought your "high percentage" remark was silly, so I gave you numbers to chew on. Bad taste?

    Melo is 6-8 235 lbs. He is considered exceptionally strong at the #3. He can dunk; yes he is one of them.

    As far as "shrinking from an argument," you've got to be kidding. When have I ever done that?

    I just don't think you know what you're talking about. And if you're blinded to what's on that video because you want to blame everything on Melo, I'm not about to get into a discussion over a subjective topic like "clutch" with you.

    BTW: I'm OK with you not liking Melo; you just picked the wrong play.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    BTW: I'm OK with you not liking Melo; you just picked the wrong play.


    Another contortion; I never said I do not like Melo, I started the statemen with the opinion that he does not share the clutch qualities as Eli Manning who is at his absolute greatest at the end of a game. But you still shirk as I have yet gotten a response for my original inquiry....


    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    One thing is for sure, Melo ain't no Eli in the fourth quater; albeit completely different sports, there is something to be said for having the mental and physical endurance to be your greatest at the end of a contest. Its not how you start, its how you finish.

    Woodson should set up a lunch meeting.
    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    I mean, do you think Melo is clutch?
    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    U are probably going to contort this too but Ill take another stab at it since u didnt bother to answer it the first time: Is Melo clutch in the fourth quater?
    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    This demostrated lack of judment at a critical point in the game denotes in part his lack of clutchness in the fourth quarter. But not only do you not answer the original inquiry but you shirk from it....

    Boo-hoo...
    And your opinon about this is?? ....lets see how you avert this time.

    But you resort to you dopey little insults cuz obviously responding in a civilized mature manner (such as just saying, I disagree because Melo had already commited to dunking and did not have time to change his approach to score; I still would have disagreed because his first inclination should have not been to dunk) would not exclamate the fact that you think you are ALWAYS right. And guess what, the statement about his shot selection is an opinion, not stated as a fact. But god-forbid someone has an opinion different than your own, here comes the primate flinging his feces at ya, aw, how cute.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Since I don't think you know basketball.....

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    Anthony had an outstanding season, and performed at high levels throuhout game 6 up to the 4th qtr. You can attribute that to not being clutch, or just plain being tired. He played 44 minutes or so - who does that?
    I factor stamina (whether it be mental or physical) into being clutch. I agree that he does loose perception of team-ball at points.

  9. #234

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    I don't agree with the first part of your statment about stamina being a part of clutch, and while I agree that his instincts and skills often result in a hesitancy to share the ball, and slow down the flow of the offense, in this series some of that criticism is mitigated by just how ineffective the Knicks secondary scorers were. Smith added nothing, Felton is really not a solid second choice on offense, and Kidd didn't even score. Shumpert, who I think will be a star one day, was inconsistent throughout.

    The question is did the secondary scorers fail because they got cold, or because the offense lost its flow? Or is it the other way around, i.e. did Anthony revert to trying to carry the scoring because no one else seemed able to hit a damn jump shot.

    I think it is a bit of both, but don't discount the latter - many of the Knicks secondary scorers were virtually useless for a good part of the series. Remember, when Shumpert got hot in the third, he was given the opportunity to shoot. Anthony did not try to take the ball away from him than. There were not enough of those moments. Perhaps Anthony felt like he had to carry the scoring because everyone else sucked.

    Bottom line to me is the Knicks need more scoring consistent options. Smith is too streaky to be relied upon, Stoudemire cannot be counted on because of health concerns and besides when he plays Anthony moves to 3 where he is effective but less effective than at 4. Felton is an OK 1, but not an efficient scorer. When he is at his best, Chandler is a force on defense, but a liability on offense. The rest of the team constitutes a combination of effective role players, or older guys who are spent (Camby, Kidd).

    And let's not forget Zippy's comments on defense. Outide of Chandler, Shumpert, and Martin (guarding the 4 but not the 5), this team is lacking defensive talent.

  10. #235
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    Melo when he is focused and commited is a very good on-the-ball defender. But he doesnt committ to it nearly as much as he should. But it does seem like he played through a partially torn labrum; thats admirable, cuz he never did use it as an excuse. Fatigue is definitely more plausible when injured and thus explains in part the 4th quater deficiensies he had.

    I really hope that Chandler was just hurt cuz he was a complete no-show and it was very disheartening to watch. Man, if Shumpert can get any semblance of a consistent jumpshot he could be very spectacular all around player... I love watching him play defense. Martin was good and plays with alot of intensity too, he fueled that 13-game winning streak.

    BTW that streak is the quintessence of peaking at the wrong time. Reminds me of the 97 knicks who were peaking at the right time until David Stern decided to play God and suspended half the team and single handedly won the series for the Heat. His retirement is a good riddance; the Bulls, Lakers and Heat should definitely be sending him generous retirement gifts for his assistance throughout the years.
    Last edited by TREPYE; May 23rd, 2013 at 10:16 AM.

  11. #236
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  12. #237

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    "Marion, don't look at the Knicks. Shut your eyes, Marion. Don't look at them, no matter what happens! "

  13. #238

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    p.u.

  14. #239
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    What's with Woodson's man crush on JR Smith??

  15. #240
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    Apparently JR untied the shoelaces of a Dallas player and was warned by the league and by Woodson.

    Then last night, he does it again - how old is this guy?

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