Reply With QuoteThey only have to go back to Martin Luther King Jr, who was greatly influenced by Gandhi while in college.
Terrific words from John Wellington Ennis.
I wonder if OWS folks have examined Gandhi and effective action for Civil Disobedience?
They only have to go back to Martin Luther King Jr, who was greatly influenced by Gandhi while in college.
Here today... Gandhi tomorrow.
In all seriousness though... This is a losing battle unless people come out. That tech site keeps rattling off the same mantra "work harder" "lazy beatniks!", "AMERICAN WAY!!!" against anyone that voices their support of this.
And the media, bought by Corporate America and living off the bottom line, is more interested in showing the strange and extreme than the main body of the protest.
Lastly, elections? Candidates need to buy the public. We have not ELECTED someone in a long time, we have simply chosen the candidate we thought was closer to what we want. We bought shoes in an ice cream shoppe.
Unless some reform, ironically passed by those it would effect the most, prohibiting the gross expenditure of funds by ANY party in support or against a candidate is enacted, we will get superPACs that treat corporations as individuals and allow them to buy their (wo)man.
The key here is to find the trigger that will get the sheeple to stop bleating the same engineered catchphrases designed to garner blind support against "them" and realize that the version of the "dream" they have been supporting has nothing in it that will provide them, their children and their children's children any more a chance of riding the litter that they are now carrying as they have of winning the lottery they still continue to play almost religiously.
This whole thing is such a convolution of irony and contradiction it is sickening. The freedom of choice we fought for allowed the idiots of the land to choose the next generation of masters. The very freedom they shout for they surrendered under the guise of "no new taxes" or "terrorism" and still believe, after many have lost their jobs, that somehow it is someone else's fault.
The fault lies in our own laps, and until we ALL can see it and CHANGE it, we will continue to fight amongst ourselves as the puppet masters continue to play the game to try to get the better of their "equals".
Look, I am completely emphetic to their frustrations, and support their message. But to my mind, the big problem is that they have not stated an objective. Why are they out there, what are they hoping to accomplish? I think they need to clearly articulate the end game here, i.e. what are they asking for and what are they trying to achieve.
I wish it could be as simple as declaring one specific goal. The umbrella is wide because the shit-storm that people are feeling is very wide...but with roots as interconnected as the boards of directors at many of the largest corporations. For now, at this nascent stage of the movement, they are trying to get people together... to figure out what moves should be made. The "Tea Party" has a lot of different concerns and goals from stopping abortion to taxes to repressing gays. If they can do it without being criticized for casting a wide net, I don't see why we have to poke holes in this counter-movement.
One thing is certain, it's a hell of a lot better than all of the progressives sitting separately in their living rooms playing gameboy or bitching to nobody but their inner circle, while the country goes down the toilet and the idiotic Tea Party gets all of the attention and talking points.
But the tea party people are all "Americans" and these guys are all "Loosers without jobs wasting time".
See the difference?
Imagine if one showed up with an M16! I am sure Rush Limbaugh would hurry to the wielders defense just like he did for the one at the tea Party rally... what was that BTW.....
You're maybe listening to too many talking heads who keep trying to frame this to fit their news bites. As Mr. Ennis states HERE:Originally Posted by eddhead
The Endgame of Occupy Wall Street Is Critical MassMeanwhile, some of those in charge see the big train coming up the Street (but aren't necessarily sure if they want to get on board, get out of the way or pull the brakes on it) ...
... Real financial overhaul will only happen if we reclaim our elections. We need real campaign reform, and we need to elect the people who will enact it. We do that through running and winning in primaries, where the party's pick usually prevails with the most money. We innovate low budget campaign strategies to support candidates not backed by Political Action Committees, fronts for corporate money. We do it through becoming the media and covering these candidates where we live and across the country. And it starts in the streets. Where else is there but the streets?
America was born in the streets. Our first president was sworn in on the steps of Wall Street, where Congress convened for years. The framer's dream of escaping monarchy is being eclipsed by the wealthiest 1% and their insatiable assault on anything the government provides to the public.
How can we not occupy Wall Street? Wall Street occupies US.
Obama, Cuomo Weigh In On Occupy Wall Street
Politicker NY
By David Freedlander
October 6, 2011 3:34pm
If further proof is needed that the Occupy Wall Street protests have captured the public’s mind, both President Barack Obama and Gov. Andrew Cuomo were asked about them today during unrelated news conferences in Washington D.C. and in Albany.
And both tried to align themselves with the goals of the protests, if not the specifics of the action.
“I think it expresses the frustrations that the American people feel,” Mr. Obama said at a news conference to promote the American Jobs Act. “That we had the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression, huge collateral damage all throughout the country, all across Main Street, and yet you’re still seeing some of the same folks who acted irresponsibly trying to fight efforts to crack down on abusive practices that got us into this problem in the first place.”
Mr. Obama also touted his administration’s own efforts to save the financial system during the crash of 2008, and said that he has pushed for more regulation of the financial system, only to have Republicans block it.
“You’ve got Republican presidential candidates whose main economic policy proposals is, we’ll get rid of the financial reforms that are designed to prevent the abuses that got us into this mess in the first place,” he said. “That does not make sense to the American people. They are frustrated by it. And they will continue to be frustrated by it until they get a sense that everybody is playing by the same set of rules, and that you’re rewarded for responsibility and doing the right thing as opposed to gaining the system.”
Mr. Obama also said that he understood the protesters calls for there to be more prosecutions of the financial systems bad actors, but said that many of those responsible for the crash were actually following the law.
Up in Albany, Gov. Cuomo, who has resisted calls to impose higher taxes on upper income earner, talked up his own record as attorney general.
“No one has been more aggressive on Wall Street than I have. I was attorney general for four years and I was very aggressive in the cases we brought, the actions we brought, and the theories that we pursued up and down Wall Street,” he said. “At the same time, it is a major economic engine for this state. All told, 20-25 percent of the state’s income comes from Wall Street There has to be a balance from the state perspective. We want fairness, we want justice, certainly and to the extent there were bad acts we want them punished.”
Full Obama remarks HERE
OK... but they are still not telling me what they want in any real concrete terms, or what they hope to accompish. Like I said, i am empathetic to the message, but I don't really understand their goals.
They want politicians to take notice of them, to worry about their impact, to listen to them.
That's when you develop specific goals.
Well, they are starting to get some traction and that is probably a good thing. At the very least, we have a potential counterweight to the teaparty movement. But at some point they are going to have to sythesize the message and create an agenda. Hopefully you're right and they'll get to that stage.
The problem is deeper than that zip.
As seen from sites that make fun of it, there are many different incongruent threads in this protest.
You get pictures on websites of people complaining about Wall Street, fine, but then right next to it you get another of someone with pink hair holding a sign that is asking for something with one particular situation or issue.
It is not that they are not valid, but it is too easy to voice opposition to the opposition if it is not seen a little more coherently (as with the Tea Party in the beginning... they lost power, or are losing power, as people are discovering that not everyone was talking about the same thing).
Now is not the time to solve problems. The idea now is to tap into the dissatisfaction of the American people.
It's not just about Wall St and financial institutions. It's also about oil companies and defense contractors.
It's not about Republican government or Democratic government.
It's not even about rich and poor.
It's about how how present government doesn't work. Politicians don't listen to what people - any people - want, except when it's time to vote. And institutional money controls their access to voters. So who do you think controls the government?
Once you get past all of the bullshit "cultural" issues that separate people, the dysfunctional government's impact on real quality of life (it's the economy, stupid) is a common thread.
Right now, critical mass.
So we'll have a large critical mass of malcontents flailing around but not presenting any viable solutions? Sounds useful to me
Zip ^ case in point.
Unfortunately blanket statements of intolerance and ignorance like this abound.
I don't think the idea is to attract people like BBMW. He thinks everything is fine, except a few social adjustments. Like get rid of everyone except "law abiding citizens."
We've gotten a glimpse of the society he wants.
@BBMW: Do you have kids; do you want a better life for them?
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