Page 6 of 32 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 470

Thread: Pier 40 - Hudson River Park

  1. #76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    Trouble? Hardly, it's information that's everywhere, and that's why you're portrayal of 10014 as some kind of midddle class area couldn't be left uncontested.
    Where did I state that? I stated that IPN residents also use the pier; I was talking about the pier, not the average income of postal zones.

    You're sorry because you were shown to be wrong in your disingenuous assertion about the overall wealth of the area.
    Thank you for presuming to know what I am sorry for, and that my responses are not serious.

    I made a statement, specifically that IPN is an "island in a sea of wealth", you refuted it, and I submitted the evidence for that specific statement.
    No, I didn't. When I stated that the demographic is not rich, it is obvious that I was referring to IPN. IPN residents use the pier. Not all pier users are rich.

    Attempts to characterize the choice as a battle between rich local residents vs...

    Well, who? Almost rich? Somehow, I can't get a handle on a family from Queens blowing $600 for a night at the circus.

    Stuff like this polarizes debates, and makes it impossible to discuss the pros and cons of any project.

  2. #77

    Default

    ^ Why on this forum do so many perfectly viable discussions devolve into rich vs. poor catfights?

    Marx would be gratified.

  3. #78

    Default

    Because that's the way it is outside the forum.

  4. #79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Because that's the way it is outside the forum.
    As I said, Marx would be gratified.

    Vindicated by history.

    I guess he was better as historian than economist.

  5. #80
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    Oh, brother.

  6. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    Oh, brother.
    Curiosity sez: "What you referrin' to, bo'?"

  7. #82
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    My curiosity asks: what does the apostrophe after "bo" refer to?

    But anyway, "oh, brother" was just a general reaction to reading the past few pages of the thread all at once. Needless to say, I got annoyed after a while. Your question captured it pretty well, actually: instead of talking about the real issue (Which plan is better?), we ended up talking about rich vs. poor.

    Zippy offered: "that's how it is outside the forum" as an excuse. But WiredNY isn't the real world. In the real world, we're not all anonymous in discussion, and we're not all (mostly) architecture/real estate/New York buffs.

    For once, the NIMBY's would be laughing their heads off, with good justification.

  8. #83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    My curiosity asks: what does the apostrophe after "bo" refer to?
    Place holder for "Y" --or "why".

  9. #84
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    ^Never seen it done that way before. Must be a Southern thing.

  10. #85
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    Why on this forum do so many perfectly viable discussions devolve into rich vs. poor catfights?
    Good question, but not applicable to what happened in the last few pages.
    My posts have not promoted making it a development for either rich OR poor, but rather an attraction that would draw a wide variety of New Yorkers. That was consistently my opinion. Please reread if that was lost on any of you.
    In the course of the discussion, I felt some of Zippy's statements were extremely misleading. A characterization of the area as not wealthy (or at least a statement that could reasonably be interpreted thus, he says he was referring only to IPN but that wasn't as obvious to the reader as it may have been to him), was not going to go unchallenged. His calling negative opinions about the People's Plan "knee-jerk" didn't help.

    It's frustrating when I write my opinion in perfectly clear English and it's still misconstrued. Again, if you'll identify my statements where I advocated use by rich vs. poor, or poor vs. rich, I'd be greatful so I could clarify.While trying, you may discover that I was actually promoting use by a wide swath of New Yorkers. Hardly a polarizing position. My point was that I was against a neighborhood amenity and in favor of a destination development.

    Pianoman, if it was annoying for you to read, imagine how annoying it is for me to have my words twisted around.

  11. #86
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    Let's bring this back to the merits of each plan. Here is
    a breakdown of each:

    PAC plan
    winter ice rink
    4 restaurants
    large attractive plaza
    multiplex movie theater programmed by the Tribeca Film Festival
    showing art films and independent films the rest of the year
    nightclub
    music hall for live performances
    ballroom/event space
    small-scale “destination” and “specialty” retail
    farmers’ market
    glass-enclosed Winter Garden with public restrooms
    marina
    trapeze School
    artificial-turf sports field rebuilt


    OTHER PLAN
    eight new indoor multi-use courts
    locker rooms
    related offices
    3 pools
    more parking
    a middle school
    cafe
    trapeze School

  12. #87
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    I've been trying to find the complete proposals for these two plans but they don't seem to have been posted.

    Some history on the Pier 40 RFP

    More info from the article on the two proposals:

    PAC Plan

    " ... a projected 2.7 million visitors a year."

    "price tag ó $626 million ó which is more than the estimated cost of the entire park itself."

    "provision for about 1,850 parking spaces in the proposal (a small drop in the current number)." (NOTE: Existing Parking = ~ 2,000 spaces)

    " ... the heavily used artificial-turf sports fields currently located there would be rebuilt on 227,000 square feet of space on the roof ... "

    "The Performing Arts Center project would take three years to complete, and Related feels that by installing ramps into the courtyard, about 800 parking spaces could still function during the renovation. But the sports fields would apparently be out of commission."

    OTHER PLAN

    Budget and length of construction for this Plan not included in the article.

    "The pierís existing sports fields would be kept where they are now in the central courtyard, where they would continue to be better sheltered from the elements than were they moved to the rooftop."

    " ... the plan would create 33 percent more open space than required under the Hudson River Park Act."

    " ... increasing the amount of car parking spaces by about 500 to 2,584."

    " ... the pierís southern promenade would be widened 10 feet."

    " ... a pedestrian bridge spanning the West Side Highway and connecting to Pier 40."

  13. #88

    Default

    Amazing how I was extremely misleading, and how I misconstrued statements.

    Yes, it's always about me, me, me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy
    Pier 40 should invite use by all of us, not just the wealthy residents across the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    The children of IPN also use the pier.
    I think I'll take a leave from this rancorous debate.

  14. #89
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    Thanks.

  15. #90
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    Midtown, the posts were annoying only because they progressed nowhere, and kept skirting the real issues. I've been involved in my fair share of those back-and-forths too. I guess for once I took notice of how silly things can get. Suffice it to say that the argument digressed, as all too many of them do on this forum.

    Zip: I think what Midtown is trying to say is not at all unreasonable. The more ambitious plan invites broader use, while the recreation-centered one will be rather one-dimensional. Given the rarity of developable land that is so large and so well-located, I think I have to agree with Midtown and vote for Related's plan.

Page 6 of 32 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Pier 54 (AKA Pier 55) - Hudson River Park
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: May 31st, 2015, 09:03 AM
  2. Pier 57 - Hudson River Park
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: December 17th, 2013, 04:00 PM
  3. Pier 64 - Hudson River Park
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2013, 08:07 PM
  4. Pier 45 - Hudson River Park
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: July 10th, 2012, 10:58 PM
  5. West Midtown Ferry Terminal on Pier 79
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For Visitors
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: November 12th, 2005, 01:23 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software