Brookfield: SOM, Field Operations, Thomas Phifer, SHoP Architects and Diller Scofidio & Renfro
Durst / Vornado / Conde Nast: FXFowle and Rafael Pelli
Extell: Steven Holl
Related / Goldman Sachs / NewsCorp: Kohn Pedersen Fox, Arquitectonica and Robert AM Stern
Tishman Speyer / Morgan Stanley: Helmut Jahn
If you ask this question again you will be banned. I’ve thus far tried answering your questions in a civil manner.Originally Posted by PHLguy
Except for a handful of sites in Midtown and Lower-Manhattan you can build 80 storeys, 100 storeys, 150 storeys, whatever zoning will support.
This is the wrong forum for your rants about super-tall buildings that do not exist past your idiocy; I am at my wits end and will not entertain it any longer.
Excuse me?
I find it incredibly rude that I have a very hard time understanding certain things and people call me an idiot. Why do you guys here insist on making people feel crappy? Don't you have any Descency?
I'll be gone for a while, this place makes me angry. Some of you need to know how to treat others better.
Good riddance. Ill make it so you won’t be back.
I'm going to explain this to you once and for ALL! A FAR of 12 means that if you cover 100% of the site, you can only go 12 floors. To get to 80, you can only use about 15% of the site. That means if you get your hands on a 200x200 plot, you can probably only build a 60x100 building (per say). If this interpretation is not correct, then feel free to correct me.
Correct, however there are often setback requirements so you can no longer build a 60x100ft building and the rest as a plaza, however it depends on the site requirements. I can only see an 80 storey building in New York through the transfer of air rights and/or incentives such as low-income housing and public amenities.
HOPPER-ESQUE: Bids are due for this entire site on Tenth Avenue between 30th and 31st streets.
By STEVE CUOZZO
The far West Side gold rush has come to another under-utilized site: the entire eastern block front of Tenth Avenue between 30th-31st streets.Eastern Consolidated's Ron Solarz is taking bids for the current owner, property maintenance and restoration firm Stuart Dean.
Bids are due in May 11 for the 14,300 square-foot site. Currently occupied by a two-story garage, a small apartment building and an empty lot, the parcel can be built out to 143,000 square feet "as of right" under Hudson Yards-area zoning.
But Solarz points out the new zoning permits buildout to 308,000 feet by buying neighboring air rights. He emphasized there was no way to predict what the site will fetch but said he would "not be surprised" to see offers "north" of $23 million, or $161 per buildable square foot based on the 143,000-foot minimum.
Big developers such as Brookfield, Related Cos. and Rockrose have big snatching up parcels all over the far West Side — some in anticipation of a new Jets stadium, Javits Center expansion and subway line extension, but most merely as an expression of confidence in the area's future.
As reported here two weeks ago, Rockrose just paid $10 million for a corner site at 10th Avenue and 37th Street. That completed two facing block fronts that it first began assembling five years ago, long before the stadium proposal or rezoning.
But where the Rockrose site is zoned for residential use, the block Solarz is marketing is zoned for mixed commercial and residential, with the commercial portion at the base. He said he's had interest already from "hotel groups, office groups, and builders of mixed-use including residential."
The site is immediately south of 450 W. 33rd St., the giant office building that's home to the Daily News and the AP.
Copyright 2005 NYP Holdings, Inc.
Oh My God!
I'm wondering since the discussion has really only focused on the real estate aspect of this development if it should be moved to Real Estate or Skyscrapers and Architecture? I'd like to hear your opinions?
A great example of this is The Trump World Tower on 1st avenue in the 40's. The Trump Building's plot is quite large and takes up a good 1/3 of the block but the tower itself takes up less than a 1/3 of the plot. The rest of the land is used for a landscaped plaza area with seating and a very large through-block driveway. The result: with the Tower's limited use of the site and Trump's ability to transfer air rights from other properties owned, Trump is able to build a monolithic 90-story equivalent tower (the floors above ground are 70 stories but many floors have double height ceilings).
yeah I think it should be move... But I dont know where... I think that Real Estate might be the best choice.
But we should change the title as well. I don't know what title though but a better tilte I guess. Since is going to be more than a vision.
The Slatin Report
NYC 04 15 05
TENTH AVENUE THAW?
Peter Slatin
With a thumb's-up-or-down vote on the controversial plan to build a football stadium on the far West Side of Manhattan – and property prices in general reaching fever-high proportions - longtime property owners in the area are getting antsy. Despite the very real possibility that development could be stymied by community activists and political infighting, speculative buying has certainly increased in recent months in anticipation of a positive move from elected and appointed officials.
The strange prospects of the district are perfectly evident in the contrast between two area properties: the ouszied 450 West 33rd Street, which stretches from Ninth to Tenth Avenue and 31st to 33rd Streets, and the two-story, 131-foot-long industrial building at 356-366 Tenth Avenue, just across the street from the huge commercial property along the eastern blockfront of Tenth Avenue, between West 30th and 31st Streets.
The larger building is owned by an investment consortium led by money manager Angelo Gordon & Co., and is home to major media outlets the Daily News, the Associated Press and public television station WNET. It once housed Sky Rink, a skating rink that, after losing its lease there, became an anchor to the Chelsea Piers sports complex ten blocks south along the Hudson River.
The other property, owned by the Stuart Dean Co., a restorer of stone, metal and wood, is for sale. It's being marketed by well-known Manhattan investment sales brokers Eastern Consolidated Properties. Bids are due May 11 – exactly one week before the meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board, the state agency that holds the yes or no key to the stadium deal, at which a vote is expected. Eastern Consolidated brokers Ron Solarz and Eric Anton anticipate a price of more than $23 million for the site, which is zoned to allow for a 143,530-square-foot structure—or up to 310,025 square feet if the new owner is able to buy air rights, says Solarz.
Hotel groups, excited by the prospect of vastly increased tourist, residential and business traffic in the area as development blooms in coming years, have naturally expressed interest in his property: The base can’t be residential, although the tower can be residential.
Whatever price is eventually paid for the Stuart Dean property, the buyer will not only be hoping to be near a football stadium. Investors are also anticipating an expanded Javits Convention Center; the extension of a subway line into the neighborhood; the rehabilitation and conversion of the huge James A. Farley post office building into a new Amtrak station just a block away; the conversion of the abandoned, dilapidated High Line Railway into an elevated pedestrian park; and the development of millions of square feet of new residential and commercial space over the next few decades as part of a city-envisioned redevelopment effort.
One hopes it will be patient money.
This articles 2 weeks old.
NY POST
WEST SIDE GLORY
By JENNIFER GOULD KEIL
April 17, 2005 -- The dilapidated West Side is turning into the city's new Gold Coast.
With 36.6 million square feet of potential commercial and residential space, the area between 30th Street and 43rd Street, west of 8th Avenue, is fast becoming some of the most desired real estate in the city — with investors, developers and real estate brokers all staking their claims.
"People are buying and selling like mad," said Anna Levin, land use committee chair of Community Board 4, of the area that now includes the Javits Convention Center and the site of the proposed multimillion-dollar New York Sports and Convention Center.
The possibility for real estate profits comes as the city rezones 59 blocks in the area. The mixed-use rezoning is part of an initiative to promote large-scale development in what's now an underutilized, mostly low-rise district, that was historically zoned for manufacturing.
Yet, even before there were whispers a of a stadium, subway or rezoning, some developers began quietly acquiring their West Side monopoly pieces in the 1990s and early 2000s. At that time, land was selling for $50 per buildable square foot. It's now up to $200 to $300 per foot.
In a move to capitalize on the West Side renovations, Rockrose Development Corp., one of six developers that teamed up with the Jets to bid on the MTA rail yard, has spent tens of millions to expand its turf around the area.
"Hudson Yards was a total crapshoot four years ago, but it was logical to us," said Rockrose planning director Jon McMillan "The area was underutilized. We now have enough critical mass to establish it as a new neighborhood."
Rockrose, whose modus operandi is to get into areas early and build rental buildings, just launched plans to begin construction on two residential sites in the area.
As hungry buyers come to the area, some of the early West Side landowners, such as the Jeffrey Katz, who has owned properties since at least the 1980s, have seen their holdings skyrocket in value. The Imperatore family, which has owned there for decades, is among those cashing in.
Steve Witkoff, of the Witkoff Group, is one buyer interested in the Imperatore family's holdings. He bought about 1 million square feet — for about $120 per buildable square foot — from a partnership controlled by the Imperatore family.
Sources say he has begun the design phase for a 1,000 room hotel that would be directly across from the Javits Center.
Those brokering West Side deals are winning out as well as the likes of Rockrose, Brookfield and Related Cos. gobble up parcels. As a top broker in the area, Anne DeMarzo of DeMarzo Realily had her own payday as middleman to developers such as Rockrose that are snapping up properties. Brokers typically earn between 3 percent and 6 percent on such deals.
Although DeMarzo did not comment on her take, sources say she has made more than $1 million from all the high-priced West Side wheeling and dealing.
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Looks like theres going to be alot of development here...FIngers crossed for 1000 footers!
Javits center has a hotel planned I belive that will reach 664 feet and 50 floors.
That's confusing, that would mean that no buildings on those sites would pass 40 floors.
one thing about FAR has always confused me.... who owns the rights to the land over the streets? At least 15-20% of the land in Manhattan is covered by roadway, if this land is not taken into account as part of the air rights for development, this looks like a huge chunk of change that the city owns (And also a large amount of potential real estate taxes down the road that are not being collected).
FAR is applied to zoning lots. The permitted size of the building is the air-right for that lot. If you build to the maximum, you have used up the air-right for that lot. If you build less bulk than allowed by zoning, you still own air rights on the lot. This is what gets sold to adjacent lots.
There is no FAR for the street (you can't put a building on it), so there is no air-right to own.
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