View Poll Results: What proposal would you like to see built for Hudson Yards?

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  • Brookfield: SOM, Field Operations, Thomas Phifer, SHoP Architects and Diller Scofidio & Renfro

    64 65.98%
  • Durst / Vornado / Conde Nast: FXFowle and Rafael Pelli

    11 11.34%
  • Extell: Steven Holl

    8 8.25%
  • Related / Goldman Sachs / NewsCorp: Kohn Pedersen Fox, Arquitectonica and Robert AM Stern

    8 8.25%
  • Tishman Speyer / Morgan Stanley: Helmut Jahn

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Hudson Yards

  1. #421
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    The Real Deal
    November 19, 4:52 pm

    Developers connect Hudson Yards to other projects

    Brookfield Properties' Hudson Yards plans Proposals for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's Hudson Yards land on the far West Side, which the agency put on display today, might reveal less about the waterfront site's potential to become a real neighborhood by 2015 than they how they connect to other big projects by the five bidders.

    All five proposals for the 26 acres are energy-efficient and pedestrian-friendly, with acres of open space. But they differ in ways that reflect their bidders' existing portfolios.

    Some would complement their bidders' key holdings. The Related Companies, which owns the Time Warner Center, proposes to build an office-retail beachhead for News Corporation that would let Related play huge media brands against each other. "We will also have similar retail to what we have at Time Warner," said Related executive Bruce Warwick.

    Tishman Speyer's bid with Morgan Stanley, for a mix of offices and waterfront apartment towers, seeks to complement Rockefeller Center, which the developer owns. President Rob Speyer said it "didn't want to end up with a canyon of buildings." Plans include an amphitheater and a grand staircase bridging the Eastern and Western railyards.

    A joint venture of the Durst Organization and Vornado Realty Trust imagines an underground people-mover to the future Moynihan Station, where Vornado is working with Related on a huge chunk of commercial space around Penn Station.

    Extell Development's bid, with suspension-hung concrete and steel supporting a pastoral mid-site park, begins with a skybridge from a tower Extell is constructing to the High Line along Hudson Yards' southern edge at Tenth Avenue. "This is great café space," said Extell chief Gary Barnett, "and we will do a four or five star hotel."

    And Brookfield Properties' design emphasizes the street grid's continuity from West Chelsea, where it controls two building sites. Brookfield CEO Richard Clark says he would likely build residential towers first, giving the commercial market time to settle.

    Developers' immediate concerns might reflect the MTA's brief window for design development. The authority requested proposals in July and collected them in October: it hopes to award the site to a bidder by early next year.

    The lack of time to study options may have induced three bidders to include all of the High Line, a railroad trestle becoming a city park that has sparked lucrative condo projects further south.

    Durst-Vornado plans of preserving most of it. It imagines replacing it with a new elevated walkway at the waterfront's edge, where a drop in elevation might raise construction headaches if the High Line is preserved. Some observers expected Durst-Vornado to erase the High Line from most of its site.

    For some bidders, the High Line makes an anchor. "It's exciting on the northern end of the High Line," Barnett said. By Alec Appelbaum

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    From NY Sun:
    Why the rush?

    Should the most attractive financial plan be chosen? I don't think so.
    I don't think so either, but. The revenue from the sale of the yards was the reason the city was unable to purchase it. If the plan that wins is considered not lucrative as competing plans it will create an uproar, and potentially another change in course.

  3. #423

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    SOM is by far the best out of the bunch (...for placeholders)... and I quarantee this megaproject will go well with David Childs/Foster's vision for the new Farley and MSG complex.

  4. #424

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    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...ebuild_-1.html

    Public responds to proposals to rebuild Hudson Yards area

    BY ETHAN ROUEN
    November 20th 2007

    The public responded with a collective sigh and a shrug Monday after getting a first glimpse at the five plans to rebuild the Hudson Yards.

    The companies elbowing for the contract to build a new mixed-use 6-block complex in the desolate swath of midtown near the Hudson River laid out their proposals - and scale models - in a storefront on Vanderbilt Ave. across the street from Grand Central Terminal.

    A comment box was placed near the door and signs on the windows solicited New Yorkers' input.

    "I now wish they were going to build the new Jets stadium there," said Michelle Daniels, 34, of Manhattan. "I just thought it is all too much."

    All of the plans include building 30 million square feet of office space and 15,000 apartments in the area between 30th and 33rd Sts. from 10th Ave. to the river.

    People who ducked into the museum-like exhibit to warm up and examine the multimedia displays expressed concern about the overcrowding the proposals' skyscrapers and sweeping plazas would bring.

    "There's going to be a lot of traffic, and I didn't see how they're going to solve that," said Jerry Roper, 45, a Harlem marble installer. "Also, they say there's 30% affordable housing, but what's affordable around there?"

    The designs are all similar, offering huge buildings and sprawling green spaces, which made choosing a favorite - or least favorite - proposal difficult for the continuous stream of visitors.

    "They all looked dated and exactly the same, like something designed in the 1950s," said Manhattan architect Don Sclare. "They seem very similar to what was proposed for Ground Zero. There'll soon be a Ground Zero downtown and a Ground Zero uptown."

    _____________________________________________

    Someone needs to line these people up so I can give one, long bitch-slap accross their faces. Always whining, always complaining. They didn't want the stadium, but now they do. They want affordable housing, but now they don't. I'm convinced that the public is just too stupid to have input on anything of significance anymore.

  5. #425

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...ebuild_-1.html
    People who ducked into the museum-like exhibit to warm up and examine the multimedia displays expressed concern about the overcrowding the proposals' skyscrapers and sweeping plazas would bring.
    "There's going to be a lot of traffic, and I didn't see how they're going to solve that," said Jerry Roper, 45, a Harlem marble installer. "Also, they say there's 30% affordable housing, but what's affordable around there?"
    I wonder how he feels about the crowding and traffic in the Grand Central area?!?!?

  6. #426

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    Quote Originally Posted by econ_tim View Post
    I wonder how he feels about the crowding and traffic in the Grand Central area?!?!?
    How does he feel about the crowding and traffic in New York in general? I think people sometimes forget that they live in a big city. Cities are crowded, noisy places. And there's not always a lot of green space around the corner.

  7. #427

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    http://www.observer.com/2007/brookfi...states-streets

    West Side Rail Yards Proposal No. 3: Brookfield Reinstates the Streets



    by Matthew Schuerman
    November 19, 2007

    Brookfield Properties, a giant landlord that keeps a lower profile than some of the city’s single-engine developers, did not come into the West Side Rail Yards competition with an anchor tenant. It did, however, come in with a whole bevy of design firms—seven in all—that proceeded to break just about every rule or convention that was set out for them.

    The result is a plan that—forgive the hypothetica—Jane Jacobs would like. It reinstitutes part of the street grid on the two massive superblocks between 30th and 33rd streets. Hotels create a street wall along 11th Avenue where other plans prescribe a park. The intent, according to Brookfield, is to link the new neighborhood with the rest of the city—including with a parcel Brookfield is developing on the eastern side of 10th Avenue.

    There is a trade-off: while the built-up space does not exceed the 12 million square feet permitted by the MTA, the new streets and sidewalks eat into what could have been green space.
    But it is arguably more “public.” In fact, Brookfield reconfigured the park on the western yard into a rectangle, accessible from 30th Street and Hudson River Park, in a bid to open up the space that other developers keep hidden between two rows of buildings.

    Brookfield clocks in with 3,298 apartments, an unspecified number of which will be affordable, and some 6.1 million square feet of office space, much of it in one 1,300-foot-high tower on the southwest corner of 33rd Street and 10th Avenue. It is the tallest proposed tower in the entire competition. So far, Brookfield doesn’t know who will occupy it, but Chief Executive Ric Clark said that the company has a deep bench to draw from.

    “We put no premium on having a tenant at this point in time. We’ve heard that others have landed their tenants by offering cost-minus deals we think that leaves some of MTA’s money on the table,” Mr. Clark. “In North America, we have more head office tenants than anybody else.
    What we do is move people around as their businesses change. They buy somebody or they sell off a decision. We have confidence that we will land a tenant.”

    ______________________________

    http://www.observer.com/2007/durst-d...ated-west-side

    West Side Rail Yards Proposal No. 2: Durst-Vornado Floats, Moves, Relocates People



    by Matthew Schuerman
    November 19, 2007

    The joint proposal for the West Side Rail Yards by the Durst Organization and Vornado Realty Trust is obsessed with getting people to the far West Side. The developers propose a subterranean “people mover” below 33rd Street that would carry up to 20,000 riders an hour from Penn Station to 11th Avenue (although it was not clear just who would pay for it); a pedestrian skyway that floats over the entire site and Hudson River Park; and a new headquarters for Condé Nast.

    “We felt that we wanted to maintain the kind of porosity that we get in the best parts of the city,” said architect Rafael Pelli, who designed the plan along with FxFowle. “We are really trying to relate it to Union Square, Bryant Park or even a Times Square. We are thinking about how this is going to be a diverse and useful area and attract people from a greater catchment area rather than an enclave.”

    The plan, one of five submitted to purchase the yards from the MTA, envisions four office or mixed-use towers, the tallest of which will be 1,205 feet tall. The new Condé Nast headquarters would go at the southeast corner of 33rd Street and 11th Avenue. Overall, the plan is heavier on residential space than the other four proposals, with about 7,000 apartments, an unspecified number of which would be affordable.

    A broad low-lying kunsthalle on the southeastern flank would house a cultural institution; its 120,000-square-foot floor plates, Mr. Pelli said, would be ideal for flower and antique shows (and, one might add, provide competition for the troubled Javits Convention Center expansion plan on the other side of 34th street).

    The project, in keeping with Douglas Durst’s environmentally progressive reputation, includes a number of green features, among them a co-generation plant to capture the heat thrown off by generating electricity; a treatment plant that would allow the complex to reuse wastewater for plumbing purposes; and bris soleil, a type of awning that would shade out the summer light while letting in winter light.

    Vornado, with its $18 billion in assets, is lending some financial heft to the bid.

    “A lot will rely on the capital strength of the bidder,” Vornado Chairman and Chief Executive Steve Roth said. “I think it is obvious that this is an enormously complex project so the success of the project may ride and fall on the financial strength of the winning bidder; that will be a very important differentiating tactic.”

  8. #428

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    I see Brookfield is far ahead in the poll.

    For those of you choosing Brookfield, what are you basing it on? Is it simply the towers look cool in the skyline shot or is it something else? Does anyone have any comments on Brookfield's actual site plan?



    The 2 office towers connected but the covered walkway on the 10th Ave. side seem well situated but after that the plan falls apart IMO.

    The row of residential buildings on the south side with all the empty space in between will end up a mess. Neither BPC or Trump's Riverside development leaves that sort of space between towers. Its very anti-urban.

  9. #429

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMGarcia View Post
    I see Brookfield is far ahead in the poll.

    For those of you choosing Brookfield, what are you basing it on?
    What we like.


    Quote Originally Posted by JMGarcia
    Is it simply the towers look cool in the skyline shot or is it something else? Does anyone have any comments on Brookfield's actual site plan?
    I don't have any comments on the site plan other than I like it better than the others. Why is it so shocking to you that so many people like the plan? People have different taste, that's all. But I'll tell you something else about Brookfield's proposal that may clarify things a little. Those buildings don't even have to be built looking exactly as they are in the rendering. It may be very subtle for some, but its the placement and height of the towers that create the most exciting skyine of the five, (not the designs, which I do like for the few that we see).

  10. #430

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    http://www.cityrealty.com/new_developments/

    Brookfield's plan uses 6 architects for MTA yards



    The proposal by Brookfield Properties to redevelop the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's rail yards on the west side of midtown Manhattan calls for the creation of 12 million square feet of space on 50 percent of the site.

    Its plan calls for 4 office buildings with a total of 6,300,000 square feet including ground floor retail, 8 residential buildings with 3,298 units, 3 hotels with 2,025 rooms, 486,000 square feet of retail space, and two cultural facilities of 100,000 square feet each, and two community spaces with 154,300 square feet including a 115,000-square-foot school.

    It envisions that the entire project will be completed in twelve-and-a-half years in 2022 with the first residential buildings being completed in 2013, the first commercial buildings being completed in 2012 and the first hotel buildings being completed in 2013.

    ______________________________________

    Durst/Vornado plan offices and 7,000 apartments for MTA yards



    The proposal by the Durst Organization and Vornado Realty Trust to redevelop the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's rail yards on the west side of midtown Manhattan calls for the creation about 7,000 apartments, 20 percent of which would be affordable and a 1.5-million-square-foot office tower on the southeast corner of 11th Avenue and 33rd Street for Conde Nast Publications.

    The plan calls for a total of 5.4 million square feet of office space on the eastern portion of the yards with a glass-enclosed galleria at the base of two of the buildings. The residential buildings on the western portion of the yards will contain about 6.4 million square feet.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    Related plan for rail yards includes 1,080-foot office tower



    The proposal by the Related Companies and Goldman Sachs to redevelop the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's rail yards on the west side of midtown Manhattan calls for a 9-acre waterfront park with a bridge to the Hudson River Park, and a two-million-square-foot headquarters building for the News Corporation that would be 1,080 feet high.

    The plan would contain 14 buildings ranging in height from 33 to 74 stories.

    _____________________________________________

    Tishman Speyer plan for rail yards is largely commercial space



    The proposal by the Tishman Speyer Properties and Morgan Stanley to redevelop the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's rail yards on the west side of midtown Manhattan calls for 13 buildings with about 13 million square feet of space including 10 million square feet of office space and 3,000 residential units, of which about 10 percent would be affordable, and about 500,000 square feet of retail space.

    _____________________________

    Extell proposes 3-leg skyscraper and "Sunslice" towers



    The Extell plan calls for 6 "Sunslice" residential towers on its south "west" site, a tower with curved walls at the northwestern corner with about 846,810 square feet of residential space, a low-rise "porous" office building on the northern edge, and a very tall cluster of three towers joined at their tops at the northeastern corner with a total of more than 3 million square feet. The top of this large structure will have more public observatory space than at Rockefeller Center and the Empire State building combined. The "Sunslice" towers have complex angled tops based on "sun angle calculations" and will have wind turbines "inside of their thin tops" and each will have about 500,000 square feet of residential space.

  11. #431
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    Extell looks preposterously ugly.

  12. #432

    Default jmgarcia, street grid + tall towers make brookfield better

    JMGarcia, its not just the architecture of Brookfield (which will change anyway). What I like is the Brookfield reconnects up the street grid, and also that it plans to build to a high height the focal point tower.

  13. #433

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    What we like.
    DOH! Wht didn't I think of that. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    I don't have any comments on the site plan other than I like it better than the others. Why is it so shocking to you that so many people like the plan? People have different taste, that's all. But I'll tell you something else about Brookfield's proposal that may clarify things a little. Those buildings don't even have to be built looking exactly as they are in the rendering. It may be very subtle for some, but its the placement and height of the towers that create the most exciting skyine of the five, (not the designs, which I do like for the few that we see).
    First, I'm not shocked at all that its the most popular. I was simply trying to get some specific comments/conversation about what people like about it. Just as you've replied at the end.

    If it begins and ends for some about how it looks on the skyline from a distance then that's fine. But I think the experience of walking through the development is just as important and I see a need for improvement on that front, to at least some extent, in all the plans.

  14. #434

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    I agree, street grid plus the skyline element is good but still too much green space.

  15. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    JMGarcia, its not just the architecture of Brookfield (which will change anyway). What I like is the Brookfield reconnects up the street grid, and also that it plans to build to a high height the focal point tower.
    It definitely does a better job of that than most but neither 31st or 32nd streets go all the way through either between 10th and 11th Ave.'s nor 11th and the river.

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