Hudson Yards

[antinimby]

Funny you should claim anyone failing to consider anything when in fact you are the one failing to consider that NJ also provides financial incentives of their own, most of which beats any the city and state of NY gives.

LIC maybe more convenient to Midtown but it's still not enough of a motivating factor to cross over the river. The few that have crossed over like Metlife have already jumped ship back to Manhattan.

Being convenient is only one of many factors. LIC is not on the same playing field in terms of being ready for commercial development as JC.

Instead of arguing on who's more convenient to/from Lower Manhattan, I think the evidence of the volume of office space development in JC vs. Brooklyn and Queens should speak for itself.

[BrooklynLove]

Funny you should claim anyone failing to consider anything when in fact you are the one failing to consider that NJ also provides financial incentives of their own, most of which beats any the city and state of NY gives.

LIC maybe more convenient to Midtown but it's still not enough of a motivating factor to cross over the river. The few that have crossed over like Metlife have already jumped ship back to Manhattan.

Being convenient is only one of many factors. LIC is not on the same playing field in terms of being ready for commercial development as JC.

Instead of arguing on who's more convenient to/from Lower Manhattan, I think the evidence of the volume of office space development in JC vs. Brooklyn and Queens should speak for itself.

that's my point - whether its a wash or not in the end, taxation of employees is not the only economic factor at issue. also re JC incentives being significnatly advantageous over LIC and bk incentives - that's somewhat (increasingly so) a dated concept.

JC's jumpstart on LIC and downtown bk was due to the financial district's commercial prominence for all the years preceding 9-11 and JC aggressive moves to lure businesses (smart) at that time. take a look at the sum of commercial development in JC and tell me what % was signed up post 9-11. LIC is now seeing its start. metlife may be leaving but citi is not and in fact it has built and is building more. and there are many other developments. as for downtown bk, the numerous commercial projects are in motion. what new commercial projects are happening in JC?

[antinimby]

Let's not kid ourselves, no matter how much "planned" new office development is in store for LIC (of which there really isn't that many), it will still never measure up to JC.

In addition to Citigroup, the list of large financial companies that have a significant presence in JC is much too large so I decided to list only the largest, most well-known ones:

Fuji Bank
Goldman Sachs
Merrill Lynch
Daiwa Securities
JP Morgan Chase
Lehman Brothers
Deutsche Bank
Morgan Stanley
UBS
Credit Suisse Securities

LIC can only dream it had that kind of roster. I also read that JC now processes more stock trading transactions than even Wall Street.

Meanwhile, LIC can't even get a few trees planted on the medians in Queens Plaza. Yeah, LIC is really gonna show 'em.

By the way, Citigroup's expansion at 2 Court House Square was approved for 40+ stories.

They ultimately built only 15. What does that tell you?

[JCMAN320]

Antinimby your right, Jersey City is actually the 12th largest office market in the country. Brooklynlove, Jersey City really is that great and antinimby it is true that 85% of stock is actually traded in Jersey City. Downtown Brooklyn doesn't even have half the office space that Jersey City does. LIC and Downtown BKLYN are too far behind and don't offer the incentives that Jersey City does. Also the PATH is quick as hell to World Trade and only blocks from Wall St. Downtown JC is right across from the WTC, while BK is still further away and taxes are too high. Also JC had advantages because it has subway lines that go directly into Midtown and WTC.

Antinimby your right, the JC firms list is long as hell. Jersey City is doing extremely well. Harborside Plaza 4 still is close to happening and also the I.M. Pei designed second Goldman Sachs Building is approved, just waiting on GS. Oh BKLove I'm born and raised in JC and am I believe are 7th gen JC resident. The JC watefront started in the late 70s and hasn't stopped. It has always had an advantage because it started as clean slate once the railyards were cleared out and New York never thought Jersey City would evolve the way it has and it has come back to bite them, so it's too late for them to build try and get to get BK and LIC on the same level as Jersey City. JC is now well established and internationally known.

Basically redeveloping the Hudson Yards and getting WTC completed ASAP are paramount for the city. JC does well when Lower Manhattan does well, so it will do well for us for LM to get back on its feet.

[kliq6]

this makes no sense - how is JC more convenient to midtown than LIC? how is JC more convenient to downtown than downtown bk? just look at the pipleine of commercial development in the works now in lic and downtown bk.

also, please explain what you mean by taxes being the same.

It has nothing to do with convience as it does cost. Brooklyn and Queens still has NY state income tax to pay on each employee, still has to buy power from Con Ed and still has to deal with large sales and corporate taxes. In the end the cost savings are not much thus the reason almost 20 years after Metrotech it really has not been a major relocation spot. Chase is about to move the former Bear Stearns workers out of their and that would represent the largest group of non government workers in Metro.

As for LIC well Citibank seems to like it but Metlife is bailing and the only new construction will house a city agency.

Jersey City and Stamford have for example lured thousands of high paying financial firms to relocate significant numbers of high yielding tax base workers out of the city.

When firms look at cutting cost and relocating out of Manhattan, BK and LIC is normally the fourth or fifth option, believe me.

In my opinion the city should push LIC as a residential community and keep Hudson Yards atleast 80% commercial. The Related deal is a nightmare for our economic future commercial market. We canyt think of the now we have to build for the then.

[kliq6]

Let's not kid ourselves, no matter how much "planned" new office development is in store for LIC (of which there really isn't that many), it will still never measure up to JC.

In addition to Citigroup, the list of large financial companies that have a significant presence in JC is much too large so I decided to list only the largest, most well-known ones:

Fuji Bank
Goldman Sachs
Merrill Lynch
Daiwa Securities
JP Morgan Chase
Lehman Brothers
Deutsche Bank
Morgan Stanley
UBS
Credit Suisse Securities

LIC can only dream it had that kind of roster. I also read that JC now processes more stock trading transactions than even Wall Street.

Meanwhile, LIC can't even get a few trees planted on the medians in Queens Plaza. Yeah, LIC is really gonna show 'em.

By the way, Citigroup's expansion at 2 Court House Square was approved for 40+ stories.

They ultimately built only 15. What does that tell you?

Antinimby- Your point on the trading processing is true and more trading floor space is in JC and CT then in Manhattan now.

JCMAN- Its very true when NY expands JC does so you guys more then anyone route for us. One thing I have to disagree with, the second GS tower albeit approved is not happening anytime soon. To much office glut their now to approve a large tower like that.

[NYC4Life]

From: http://ny1.com

At a special board meeting today, the MTA unanimously approved the deal with Related Companies to develop the West Side rail yards.

Related plans to build 13-million square feet of mixed-use development on the 26-acre site.

If all goes as planned, construction could begin in a few months.

The terms of the deal are similar to the one that fell apart last week with Tishman Speyer, after the MTA accused the developer of trying to change the terms of the deal over a zoning dispute.

[BrooklynLove]

AN and JC - you guys are talking rearview mirror. i'm talking windshield.

and i'd love to hear what convoluted interpreation you're using to conclude that more trades happen in JC than NYC. GS and ML alone probably do more volume than all of JC. and don't give me some retarded explanation that trades are done on some mainframe and rackspace in BFE NJ. as for CT, let's see how that's doing 2 years from now once UBS finishes slimming down and half those hedge funds are hostorical.

[antinimby]

BL, you are in denial. Rearview or windshield, LIC and DTBK will never touch Jersey City. JC has got too many things going for it that Brooklyn and Queens can only wish for.

As for the trade processing, I don't see Brooklyn or Queens even getting a piece of that action. Couldn't even get a crumb.

So where's the big, bright future that's going make them overshadow JC, huh?

I didn't think so.

[BrooklynLove]

who cares about trade processing - it could be in buffalo, nj, whatever - just rack space. dead weight.

dude - look at all the mixed development underway right now in the queens plaza and downtown bk areas - its like shanghai over here. much more comm buildout in the pipeline now in LIC and DBK than in JC. LIC and DBK are the new black.

[antinimby]

First, you say how LIC is going to have all these commercial developments.

Then when we punch holes in that claim of yours, you are now pushing "mixed use" developments.

It's laughable, really.

When are you going to admit defeat?

Condos? Jersey City's got more and they're taller.

Office towers? Jersey City's got more and they're taller and bigger.

Face it, this is one argument ya never gonna win.

P.s. you can now downplay the trading all you want, but if Brooklyn and Queens had them, then you would be the first here boasting about it.

[BrooklynLove]

When are you going to admit defeat?

n e v e r

[brianac]

June 17, 2008, 4:25 pm

Veteran of Failed Jets Stadium Is Tapped for West Side Project

By William Neuman


You would think that anyone interested in developing the Hudson Yards on the West Side of Manhattan might want to avoid comparisons to the ill-fated proposal to build a stadium on the same site for the New York Jets, which fell apart very dramatically three years ago.

Think again.

The Related Companies announced on Tuesday that it is hiring Jay Cross, one of the men most closely associated with the Jets’ stadium project, to run its Hudson Yards development.

Related signed a preliminary agreement with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority last month making it the designated developer of the railyards west of Midtown, a deal worth an estimated $1 billion to the authority. The two sides are expected to sign a final contract for the development later this year.

In July, Mr. Cross, who is currently president of the Jets, will take over Related’s development team for the 26-acre site, which sits on both sides of 11th Avenue between 30th and 33rd Streets.

In a statement, Related’s chairman and chief executive, Stephen M. Ross, praised Mr. Cross’s familiarity with the railyards site, which is enormously complex. Mr. Cross led the stadium effort for the Jets.

Before new buildings can go up, the developer must build massive and costly platforms over the yards, even as Long Island Rail Road trains continue to operate on the tracks.

Related has proposed to build 12 million square feet of office towers, apartment buildings and parks on top of the platforms.

The Jets deal came apart in June 2005, when state legislative leaders refused to give it their support. It had long been a priority of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and its defeat was a heavy blow to his agenda.
The stadium had also featured prominently in the city’s proposal to host the 2012 Olympics; without it, the Olympics bid was severely weakened and ultimately failed.

Tom K. Wright, the executive director of the Regional Plan Association, which opposed the stadium project but supports the transportation authority’s development plans for the site, said that Mr. Cross was a good choice because he knows the area.

“I thought he was a very good spokesperson for the Jets, did a very good job of presenting it and in particular he never burned any bridges with anybody,” Mr. Wright said. “Even having debated him publicly and privately on it, it was always just about the issues. It was never personal. In many ways it makes enormous sense to snap him up.”

In signing on with Related Mr. Cross will join another alumnus of the stadium wars. Jay Kriegel, the former executive director of the Olympics bid, works for the developer as a senior adviser.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-side-project/

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

[pianoman11686]

Somewhat interesting tidbit: Jay Cross used to be on the board of directors of Trizec Properties, a massive Canadian REIT that was acquired by Brookfield Properties a few years ago.

[scumonkey]

From the New York Observer:Related Taps New Landscape Designer For West Side Yards

by Eliot Brown | August 1, 2008


Brooklyn Bridge Park rendering from Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates.


Expect changes ahead in the renderings of Related Companies' planned $15 billion West Side rail yards development: The developer has brought on Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates to lead the landscape design, tapping a design firm widely known for its work on public parks, including the planned Brooklyn Bridge Park.
Related was designated the developer of the 26-acre site by the Javits Center in May and is expected to sign a contract with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the owner of the yards, in the fall.
Related's decision to bring on the design firm represents a shift from the bidding process, when it had West 8 lead the landscape architecture for its proposal.
Matthew Urbanski, design principal at Michael Van Valkenburgh, said much of the landscape design will focus on relating to the Hudson River given that the development will sit on a platform over the rail tracks that rises well above street level in sections of the site, especially on the western edge.
"Normally, if you move back in a block in Manhattan, you kind of lose connection with the river, just because it's relatively flat, and you can't see it," he said. "But if you're moving back in on a high platform, and if you do it right, it could have much more deep views out to the west in the sunset; across the river."