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Thread: The Smoking Ban

  1. #166

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    I'm sure the horse-shodding industry once made the same argument.
    The tobacco industry is aware of the inevitable, and marketing focus has switched to the fertile southeast Asia.

    Beer is usually delivered by truck, but the beer will still get delivered if the driver doesn't smoke.

  2. #167
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadenfrau
    Agreed.

    Also, there's no way cigarettes could easily be removed from the economy. The loss of revenue would have a tremendous impact, and you'd think that even the most vehement anti-smokers would admit that.
    um, no we wouldn't...



    There would be very few people effected by a total stoppage of smoking. Somehow all the arguements keep coming in.

    Ironically, I think the ones that would be effected the most would be the Tobacco companies AND the governments who tax them.

    that is about it.

    As for car exhaust, you don't have a cars tailpipe inside the buidling with you. Also, the occurance of things like Tollbooths are much less than the occurances of bars and restaurants.

    Finally, who says that car emmisions are a good thing? We do need cars for a lot of things, and elimination of them would effect things MUCH more than the elimination of ciggs.

    Why don't we make car emmission standards more strict, oops, we are.

    If toll booths are so bad, why don't we eliminate them? We don't exactly NEED someone taking tolls to let us cross the bridge you know....

  3. #168

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    I was pointing out that the analogy is faulty, but there are worse things in the environment than smoke in bars. Alcohol, as a "second-hand" problem is right up there. Lots of people who don't drink are forced to suffer its effects.

    If you think I'm all over the place on this issue - my directive as moderator is to stimulate the conversation. :roll:

  4. #169

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    Bloomberg's attitude strikes me of a Victorian-style disciplinarian telling people how to behave and how not to behave. That's basically how he operates, not just concerning smoking. I could give a million examples of his nanny-state mentality, but I prefer not to. Bars, restaurants, and pool halls often keep people under 18 out, thus they're different from offices, retail places, and mass transit systems, which operate mostly in the daytime, and also prohibit eating and drinking. Many restaurants prohibited smoking even before Bloomberg came along, so why did he even bother.

    Also, Bloomberg's ban on bars and restaurants set loose a chain reaction of other smoking bans in other places, and now we're hearing of activists and health officials calling for tobacco to be banned altogether, nationwide. I know it's been said before, but I doubt that there would be any talk of prohibition if not for this unnecessary law. Richard Carmona's call to ban all tobacco was the first. Recently the British magazine the Lancet said the same thing, they now want tobacco posession made into a crime all over the UK. I doubt these two will be the last to call for a prohibitionist agenda. As Sebastian the crab once said, "You give them an inch, they swim all over you."

    And yes, smoke-easies have begun to appear in the city: although I'm not a smoker, I have friends who do, and I don't mind them. For security reasons I'm not saying where they're going to indulge their habit.

  5. #170
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    That is not exactly a fair assessment agglom.

    you are saying that NY and Bloom precipitated the feelings that other people have against smoking?

    That somehow Bloom is responsible for Ireland banning smoking?

    I don't think prohibition of this stuff is the answer, but making it something you have to keep seperate from others when they do not want to participate is fair.

    If you want to drink but not stink of smoke, you have a right to say something about it. If you want to smoke and you don't mind the stink, fine, but there should be a place for that.

    maybe smoking institutions like the turkish smoking bar (what do they call them?). Only restriction, you can't drink...

    Smoke where you want to, drink where you want to, but don't force others to endure your vice when they are trying to enjoy their own...

  6. #171

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    Who is Bloom?

  7. #172
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    He's that guy that hangs out with Opus and Bill.

  8. #173

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    I've been the GM of a nightclub in Manhattan for the last couple of years and all I can say is this: the ban is cripling. I now work with a liquor company called Zygo from New York, and I'm all over the city. I see the change everywhere. The bars are never as packed, everyone stands around outside, they buy fewer drinks, and it's just easier to stay home than being told what to do when you are out.

  9. #174

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    Obviously the smoking ban hasn't destroyed NYC's nightlife utterly, but the city's night establishments haven't been filling up with "hordes of nonsmokers" either, as Mike Bloomberg predicted. From experience I'd say Manhattan isn't doing too badly (after all it's always been famous for its huge crowds), but in the outer boroughs they're not doing as well.

    And like I said, If Bloomberg (and his health secretary Friedman) thought it was constitutionally legal to ban all tobacco products in the city and make its possession a crime, he'd probably impose such a total ban in a flash. I really don't think it's a coincidence that we began hearing calls for nationwide tobacco prohibition a couple of months after this current ban.

  10. #175
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    I don't think he would Agglom.

    you are putting your own feelings into this now.

    Although Bloom probably does not like smoking at all, and there might be some out there taht would jump at the chance for a Tobacco prohibition, I do not take Bloom to be a dumb man.

    He sees what happaned with Alcohol and he will not do the same with Tobacco.

    Regulation is what works with these things, not forbiddance. Look how sucessful we have been with weed. Since we have banned it I see more and more people sneaking it left and right on the streets and in other areas.

    I am just wondering if and when the surrounding states will do the same...

  11. #176

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    Please call Michael Bloomberg by his given name. It is not "Bloom" or "Xdajfhas" or anything else you might come up with.

    Bloomberg.

  12. #177
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    "Xdajfhas"
    Why would someone called him that?

  13. #178

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    I have no idea. It makes about as much sense as referring to him as "Bloom".

  14. #179
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadenfrau
    I have no idea. It makes about as much sense as referring to him as "Bloom".
    OK Schad.

  15. #180

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    Ninjahedge, I'll try not to sound offensive, but from what I've read, you're a New Jerseyan living in a state with no statewide smoking ban (and clearly resentful of it), so I wouldn't be surprised if you wanted Bloomberg and Friedman to press for a similar ban across the Hudson River. Am I correct?

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