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Thread: Bryant Park

  1. #46

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    Guernica is probably not a good example, but how about Andy Warholl's Campbell's Soup Cans? Warholl intentionally blurred the line between art and advertising. On the other hand, can a brilliant ad qualify as art (e.g., some Absolut ads)?

  2. #47

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    ^ Ads are contracted in advance and paid for by the advertiser. Warhol did Campbell soup cans on his own intiative, and his intention was not to promote soup.

    If doing advertising, he would have been told how to do it by his account manager and his art director. You would have been able to read the fine print on the can, and there would have been an additional print message.

  3. #48

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    ^Not in Absolut ads. The only requirement is that the general shape of the bottle be included. The rest is up to the artist.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Guernica wasn't propaganda; it was deeply felt and personal, and it wasn't done at the behest of a corporation or a government.
    Perhaps propoganda was not the most appropriate word to use, as the painting was a reaction to the horror of the events that inspired it. However, it was indeed commissioned by the Spanish government, specifically for the Paris International Exposition. It was as much a personal expression of emotional outrage as a political outcry to the rest of the world on behalf of Spain.

    In any case, I think there is a line, although a very fine one, between advertising and propoganda. It allows the former no possibility of ascending to the realm of art, while making it that much harder to decide the latter's fate.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenius View Post
    ...Absolut ads. The only requirement is that the general shape of the bottle be included. The rest is up to the artist.
    Solidly in the realm of graphics.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    Perhaps propoganda was not the most appropriate word to use, as the painting was a reaction to the horror of the events that inspired it. However, it was indeed commissioned by the Spanish government, specifically for the Paris International Exposition. It was as much a personal expression of emotional outrage as a political outcry to the rest of the world on behalf of Spain.
    Interesting, pianoman, that it was commissioned by a government; but there's a good chance, imo, Picasso would have painted it on his own initiative. He's hard to see here as a hired gun, like a Milton Glaser. More like Michelangelo at the Sistine Ceiling: paid for by the powers-that-be, but still a work of personal conviction.

  7. #52
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    Exactly. That's why I see the line, in this case, as harder to define than say, the line between an Absolut ad.

  8. #53
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    No Fashion Cheers for Lincoln Center


    GOOD OLD DAYS? Fashion Week may be forced out of Bryant Park as early as next season.

    By ERIC WILSON

    Published: September 21, 2006

    THE landlord-tenant dispute between Bryant Park and IMG, the owner of New York Fashion Week, looks increasingly likely to end with the eviction of the event from its Midtown home. The likelihood has left the fashion business grappling with the reality of a move to smaller quarters for the fall 2007 shows in February.

    Lincoln Center is one replacement that has been explored, with disappointing results: tents on opposite sides of the New York State Theater with a winding corridor between would require guests to walk the equivalent of a city block between shows.

    And looking at a conceptual drawing of what the runway shows would be like at Lincoln Center, as opposed to Bryant Park, is like comparing a studio apartment with a classic six. Even on paper, the layout is cramped, weirdly shaped, lacking closet space and hardly conducive to an ambience of luxury.

    “Nothing else is as good,” said Anna Wintour, the editor of Vogue, who said she has written to Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg asking him to intervene to keep the shows in Bryant Park, at least until a viable alternative can be identified. “The fashion industry should be taken seriously. The mayor should give us the respect we deserve.”

    There is even talk of a Manolo Mile: editors and designers disgruntled enough about moving out of the park, where the shows have taken place since 1993 (with the exception of a season at Chelsea Piers), to march on City Hall. But the impasse between IMG and the park management seems too great to overcome.

    “It doesn’t surprise me they are fiercely fighting to stay,” said Dan Biederman, the president of the Bryant Park Corporation. “They’re used to the park, but the truth is, they have really outgrown the park. Right now they are at the edge of the gardens.”

    Mr. Biederman and Fern Mallis, a vice president of IMG, have waged a decadelong battle over the fashionable image the shows lend to Bryant Park versus the public’s right to park access.

    This year, IMG began looking at other sites with the expectation that the shows could be a bigger media event than they already are. But Mr. Biederman’s eviction notice caught it off guard, an IMG spokesman said. A study of Lincoln Center then under way assumed that neighboring spaces would be available for the fashion shows, but it turns out those are being developed by Fordham University.

    “If our initial opportunity to be there sounded great, it’s not matching up to the shape that we hoped,” the spokesman said. “Until we find a bigger venue, we need to stay in a venue that works.”

    Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

  9. #54

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    Plenty of space in Central Park.

    What's wrong with Javits?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post

    Plenty of space in Central Park.
    ha ha ... they hardly let everyday NYers walk on the grass there, let alone all those leggy ladies in ther spike heels.

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post

    What's wrong with Javits?
    lack of easy access -- maybe once they get that 7-Line extension in place.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    lack of easy access -- maybe once they get that 7-Line extension in place.
    Can you believe that? A convention center you can't get to!!

    Must have been cooked up by Spitzer.

    A bozocracy.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    “The fashion industry should be taken seriously. The mayor should give us the respect we deserve.”
    Hehehe. That is funny.

    RESPECT US!!!!! HIGH FASION IS A VITAL AND IMPORTANT PART OF THE CITY!!!!!!



    There is even talk of a Manolo Mile: editors and designers disgruntled enough about moving out of the park, to march on City Hall. But the impasse between IMG and the park management seems too great to overcome.
    Actually, they will never march on City Hall.

    There is no runway.

    “It doesn’t surprise me they are fiercely fighting to stay,” said Dan Biederman, the president of the Bryant Park Corporation. “They’re used to the park, but the truth is, they have really outgrown the park. Right now they are at the edge of the gardens.”
    True, the show was frigging HUGE. I am wondering how the lawn survived.

    Mr. Biederman and Fern Mallis, a vice president of IMG, have waged a decadelong battle over the fashionable image the shows lend to Bryant Park versus the public’s right to park access.
    Fasionable image? It looked like a convention being held. No matter WHAT convention it was, it did not lend any aire of respectablity to the park. It looked like a sell-out to me.

    I understand their need, but trying to make it seem like a vital part of NY life, commerce and culture is over-inflating an already bloated ego-bound industry.

  13. #58

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    From Wkipedia:

    The financial, insurance, and real estate industries form the basis of New York's economy. The city is also the most important center for mass media, journalism and publishing in the United States, and is the preeminent arts center in the country. Medical research, technology, and fashion are also significant sectors. Manufacturing, although declining, remains consequential.

  14. #59
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    Clearly ^^^ the Fashion Industry should be able to (1) Pay more for using Public Space or (2) Build / Finance their own show place.

  15. #60
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    Alb, I appreciate where they are coming from, but fashion is far from being one of the major staples of NYC.

    Without it, places like SOHO would definitely suffer, but places like the East Village were fashionable not because of the fashion industry, but rather because they were NOT from the industry.

    So for things like Brooks Brothers suits and Prada handbags, indeed NYC is amply supplied, but without them, or more importantly, without these shows, there is not much of a horrific impact that would be noticed that could not be filled by other industries mentioned in the same quoted passage.


    The thing that gets me most about the statements being made are the ones that seem to imply that the fashion industry has some RIGHT, for just BEING the fashion industry, to be able to, um, vehemently request special treatment in regards to things like Bryant park.

    I do feel for them as an industry that is out to do the best for itself and for its people, but I just cannot somehow sympathize with the hardship of an industry that pretty much relies totally on opulence for its mainstay.

    It also does not help that this industry LIVES off of mankind's desire to be above the mainstream. Owning an LV bag does not mean that you bought it because somehow it fits your needs, or even matches what you wear so much as it is a definite "LOOK! I have an LV bag!!!!".

    So I do hope that they find a new place to have these things, but they have no sympathy from me in the difficulty of finding one.

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