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Thread: Hudson Rail Tunnel - Access to the Regionís Core (ARC)

  1. #151

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    ^ Clear as mud.

  2. #152

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    Why does it matter? It's basically the same station, just different platforms.

    The old and new stations will all be connected.

  3. #153
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Is there a nice simple map of the planned new station and how it is situated in regard to Penn that someone could post a link to or post an image of?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Is there a nice simple map of the planned new station and how it is situated in regard to Penn that someone could post a link to or post an image of?
    I don't if these help but there are some maps showing where the station will be in Manhattan:

    http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/feis/02...tives_feis.pdf

  5. #155
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Thanks ^

    Even though it's labeled "Project Alternatives" it looks like it's all gonna be part of Penn Station -- expanded to the west and below.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Thanks ^

    Even though it's labeled "Project Alternatives" it looks like it's all gonna be part of Penn Station -- expanded to the west and below.
    No those alternatives were rejected, they're going to build the new station underneath 34th street (North) of the current Penn Station. The alternative to build under the current Penn Station (Alternative P) and the alternative to build South of the current Penn Station (Alternative S) were rejected in favor of the current plan.

    They had a more detailed PDF that include renderings of the new station locations, their design as well as the fan plants. That PDF has been taken down, I assume it's because the properties have yet to be acquired. The Port Authority is acquiring the properties in Manhattan for the Fan plants and station entrances.

    Here's another PDF with Figure D showing the station entrance (purple squares) and the fan plant locations (yellow squares) will be located.

    http://www.arctunnel.com/pdf/library..._agreement.pdf

    The vid

  7. #157

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    ^
    But it's still all connected. You won't have to walk outside or anything.

    It's basically the same station, even if maybe they will have different names to the two sides.

  8. #158

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    It won't be connected as far as tracks are concerned, so it's not the same station. That's the flaw they're talking about.

  9. #159

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    IMO that is not a flaw to the average rider. The destination is the same. And it's irrelevent anyways, because it can't be done without wild increases in cost, which would never be approved for such a marginal benefit.

    Also I don't see why this wouldn't mean they're part of the same terminal. The LIRR to Grand Central is not connected to the Metro North to Grand Central, but they're still the same station.

  10. #160

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    I'm talking about future flexibility in moving trains through Penn Station. Broadening options. Your scope is narrow if you're only thinking about passengers whose destination is Penn Station.

    See posts 143 and 147.

  11. #161
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    The loss of the direct rail connection to the current Penn Station complex is a set back, especially for Amtrak. NJ Transit's post new tunnel service plan calls for giving back to Amtrak one additional slot per hour, that's not much but it's something.

    As for Grand Central Terminal, the Executive Director of the Port Authority Christopher Ward mentioned in a New York Times Q&A a month or so ago that once NYC finishes it's new Water tunnel that construction of a connection between the new 34th street station and Grand Central can proceed. Currently the City does not want construction too close to the aging water tunnels for fear of disabling them, however when the new Water tunnel is completed (2020?) they would be willing to allow construction of a Grand Central link to proceed.

    Basically from what I've read the TBM is going to be left in place underneath 34th street when the new Hudson tunnel project is complete in 2017, from 2020 on (Water Tunnel #3 completion date) New Jersey and the Port Authority could pursue extending the new rail tunnels to underneath Grand Central Terminal.

  12. #162
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The Third Water Water Tunnel excavation is 500+ feet under the ground. The surface <> tunnel access points / shafts on the west side are at 26 / Eleventh Avenue & 46th / Tenth Avenue. How does that interfer with the rail tunnel?

  13. #163

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    How does that interfer with the rail tunnel?
    correct me if i'm wrong but...
    He didn't say it did.
    Sounds like they want to finish the new water tunnel first, so if anything happened to the "OLD" ones we already have...

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumonkey View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong but...
    He didn't say it did.
    Sounds like they want to finish the new water tunnel first, so if anything happened to the "OLD" ones we already have...
    That's right, they don't want to lose one of the two current tunnels because of some vibration or whatever from the construction of the rail tunnels. When the new 3rd tunnel is complete they will have the redundancy in place to be able to tolerate construction of the rail tunnel from NYPE to Grand Central.

    I'll find the comments..

  15. #165

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    Please speak up if there is a flaw in my thinking, ... They are not going to connect with the old tunnel west of Old Penn but, would it be just as good for the new penn station to connect with the tracks east of Old Penn, west of Sunnyside yard ? Amtrak could use the new station for through trains the LIRR could also use it. It seems to me that this would solve several problems. Course they should also help pay for the connection.


    Just an off topic after thought. The New Croton aqueduct is being rebuilt at this time. The Old Croton was finished in 1842, New Croton was finished in 1887.
    Last edited by ZenSteelDude; June 12th, 2009 at 11:55 PM.

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