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Thread: Brooklyn Bridge

  1. #76

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    I'm not sure what you mean by track supports.

    The subway that originally ran over the bridge was an El, but the tracks were on the roadbed. They ran on what are now the left auto lanes, enclosed in steel boxes, which were added for stiffness. Trolley and horse carriage lanes were outboard.

    In 1944, the subway service was terminated. The box structure was dismantled, and new horizontal stays spanning the width of the roadbed were installed (what's there now), creating three auto lanes.

  2. #77
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    By track supports I mean the original mechanism that was used to support the tracks. Embedded beams, angles and other items that could be easily re-appropriated for use.

    By your description, it sounds like these were not really "above" anything. The picture is a bit misleading as it looks like multiple levels... I was also going on the assumption that the railway was on that upper portion where the pedestrian path now is, and is being proposed to be expanded to.


    The only thing I see wrong with the expansion is if the diagram is not to scale. Having one bike lane in each direction is a poor choice. They should have two areas, each one way with occasional crossovers available (for people who get half way and go "oops, I forgot something"). Keep the center as all pedestrian, which is much better so long as you also prohibit "look at me" strollers and stuff.....

  3. #78

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    The existing horizontal stays above the roadway would be the foundation for the new pathways.

    Scroll to Figure 5 in the link below. That's the cross section of the subway layout. Take out the subway, take out the columns in the roadway, and extend the horizontal stays across all three lanes, and you have today's layout in Figure 8. The pedestrian promenade hasn't changed at all.

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/70995833...ROOKLYN-BRIDGE

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    The only thing I see wrong with the expansion is if the diagram is not to scale. Having one bike lane in each direction is a poor choice. They should have two areas, each one way with occasional crossovers available (for people who get half way and go "oops, I forgot something")
    A two way bike lane allows you to stop anywhere, turn around, and go the other way. Why complicate it with crossovers? The best thing is to keep the bikeway and walkway completely separated. If there's a connection, pedestrians would ultimately wander over to the bikeway. That's how it is on the Manhattan Bridge. The bikeway is on the north side of the bridge, the pedestrian path on the south side.

    The only think "wrong" with the diagram is that it shows the existing and new pathways at the same height. To do that, the existing promenade would have to be raised about three feet.





    At both towers, the promenade rises to the same level as the horizontal stays. The following photo was taken near the tower.


  4. #79
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    The existing horizontal stays above the roadway would be the foundation for the new pathways.

    Scroll to Figure 5 in the link below. That's the cross section of the subway layout. Take out the subway, take out the columns in the roadway, and extend the horizontal stays across all three lanes, and you have today's layout in Figure 8. The pedestrian promenade hasn't changed at all.
    I understand zip. Like I said, the scale is a bit disorienting. A standard traffic lane is about 12 feet wide, I do not remember the center walkway being 12 feet wide, and the diagram makes it look even wider than a traffic lane.

    Thanks for the link! On page 5 they show a similar cross section... although the people look small. Could this only be in certain areas? Am I confusing the open deck with an area that may have some other interferences?

    A two way bike lane allows you to stop anywhere, turn around, and go the other way. Why complicate it with crossovers?
    Because you have people riding headlong into each other. Try that narrow strip along the Hudson. Try passing someone. Try blading on it. It can be quite harrowing, or just plain annoying (depending on the situation).

    The best thing is to keep the bikeway and walkway completely separated. If there's a connection, pedestrians would ultimately wander over to the bikeway. That's how it is on the Manhattan Bridge. The bikeway is on the north side of the bridge, the pedestrian path on the south side.
    That will always be a problem. People will go just about everywhere. the bigger problem on a lot of these things would be bikers not getting off their bikes while crossing over and causing hazards.

    But I would worry more about 2-way bike traffic hitting each other than crossover problems....

    The only think "wrong" with the diagram is that it shows the existing and new pathways at the same height. To do that, the existing promenade would have to be raised about three feet.

    At both towers, the promenade rises to the same level as the horizontal stays.

    Thanks zip.

  5. #80

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    The modern standard traffic lane width (such as West St ) is 11 feet. The BB lanes are definitely narrower, maybe 10 feet. The walkway is about 15 feet wide. The useable walkway area is narrower because of the cables.

    Because you have people riding headlong into each other. Try that narrow strip along the Hudson.
    When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I commuted by bike over the BB. It had far fewer pedestrians then. It was no problem. As I said, the north path on the Manhattan Bridge is two way bike only. No problem.

    The Hudson River bikeway problems are caused only by the mixing of bikers and pedestrians. Runners use it also, but technically, they are not allowed on the bikeway. Crosswalks are also a problem, but you wouldn't have that on the BB. The only times that bikes alone are a problem on the HRP bikeway is on weekends, when it's crowded. There is much less bike traffic on the bridges, and you almost never see children on bikes.

  6. #81

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    The Hudson River bikeway problems are caused only by the mixing of bikers and pedestrians. Runners use it also, but technically, they are not allowed on the bikeway.
    This is correct, (and the bikeway is plenty big enough...for the bikers (not so much when you add in all the illegal joggers/walkers).
    This rule will never make any difference if nobody enforces the law. There have been signs up since it opened warning that peds/joggers are not allowed on the bikeway.
    They even installed new temporary giant electronic lite up signs, telling them to use the foot path, did it stop anyone....ABSOLUTELY NOT.
    Try and ride your bike on the footpath side and you'll get a ticket before you can blink, dally on foot along the bikepath- not an officer to be seen.
    There are now so many joggers and clueless walkers illegally using the bikeway on the weekends, it's almost impossible to navigate around them while trying to ride a bike down it.
    Just last night while riding south on the newly signed bikeway, a clueless, plugged in, tuned out, and totally self absorbed jogger, running right down the middle,
    decided to start to turn right- before quickly veering off to his left- without looking back, and right into my oncoming front wheel.
    In the process breaking off my headlamp, bending my breaking lever, and spraining my wrist (where he grabbed at trying to stop me).
    I felt little sympathy for this self entitled a hole, realizing i'm now about to be out more than fifty bucks for replacement parts, because he had blatantly ignored to follow the
    even more obvious "no pedestrian/joggers" rules,(that no patrol ever bothers to enforce).

    Went over the bridge as well - too many people period ! (the construction doesn't help any either.)
    Last edited by scumonkey; August 13th, 2012 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #82
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    Monkey,

    OT, but I agree. The biggest problem are the walkers and joggers that are not only clueless enough to be on the bike path, but to be completely oblivious as well. The least they could do is be mindful of who THEY are inconveniencing/posing a hazard to and STAY OUT OF THEIR WAY!

  8. #83

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    At each tower, the pedestrian walkway rises to the same level as the horizontal stays across the roadway. A widened walkway would have to be built at this level. I don't know how they would extend it along the approaches, where the ramps slope down to the same level as the roadway. The walkway is several feet wider here, since there are no cables along the sides.

    Painting the bridge

    There was a silly article in the NY Post a few years ago that made its way into the Wiki page for Rawlins, Wyoming. A city website mistakenly listed the bridge color as "Queensborough Tan" [LOL, they even spelled it wrong], and corrected to "Brooklyn Bridge Tan." So an "investigation" was begun to find the true color.

    An urban legend at the time of the BB centennial maintained that it was painted "Rawlins Red," an iron oxide paint that was produced by a company that existed at the time the bridge was built. Apparently, this was reinforced by a Currier and Ives print, showing the main cables a deep red.



    However, Currier and Ives also produced this image:



    Both were released in 1877, before the bridge was completed.

    The LPC maintains that the bridge was originally painted two shades of buff, or tan. The silver-grey color of the suspenders and diagonal stays is not historically accurate. The bridge will be painted one color. There is no name, but since the project involves federal funds, there is a number at the GSA - FS-20227.


    Not sure what the light color is, maybe a protective undercoat for the cables.





    You don't need the negative-pressure cocoon for painting, just a really big drop cloth.



    You don't notice how deteriorated the surface is until you compared it to a restored section.



    The roadway is being replaced with precast concrete-filled steel grid deck panels.



    The current rehab is Contract #6. In 1980, Contract #1 was the result of a 1970s inspection by NYS DOT. Due to a complete neglect of maintenance since WWII, the structural integrity of the bridge was becoming dangerously compromised.

    In 1981, two diagonal stays pulled loose, killing a pedestrian on the promenade.

    The four main cables are about 16 inches thick. Each is comprised of 19 strands bundled together. Each strand is made up of 280 individual wires about 0.2 inches in diameter. Inside the anchorage, the 19 strands separate, each connected to an eyebar.

    From The Great East River Bridge, 1883–1983, essay The Next Hundred Years by Steven S. Ross:

    There, the anchorages are cave-like tunnels of limestone. “We had trouble even getting inside to do the inspection,” said George Zaimes. “In order to see all the wires where they go around the eyebar pins, we had to use fiber optics. No one had been able to see this area since it was built more than a hundred years ago.”

    The engineers were alarmed by what they saw. A hundred years of water dripping into this critical space had corroded many of the individual wires, and an earlier, misguided preservation effort had made things worse. “Someone thought they would protect the eyebars and dumped concrete on top of them in some of the anchorage tunnels,” said Zaimes. “The concrete is porous. It absorbed the water and held it right on the wires, greatly increasing the rate of corrosion.”

    Of the 152 strand-and-eyebar loops (nineteen at each end of each of the four main cables), at least two and as many as twenty will have to be replaced starting in 1983. Such a task has never been attempted. Once a strand has been identified as needing to be repaired, a special clamp designed by the Steinman firm will be used to hold the strand tightly against the weight of the Bridge itself. The strand will then be cut through, each of its 280-odd wires cleaned of rust and dirt, and a steel socket pulled over the clean wires. The wires will be spread apart to form a cone-shaped brush within the socket, and the socket will be preheated to receive molten zinc.

    Until engineers at Columbia University tested the technique on a full-size mockup of the anchorage, no cable of this size had ever been socketed in a horizontal position. “And it has never been done in so confined a space as the anchorage tunnels,” said Dr. Maciej P. Bieniek, the Columbia civil engineering professor who helped direct the project.

    The Columbia researchers heated the zinc until it was liquid, then poured it down a twelve-foot funnel and pipe to the socket assembly. This simulated what will actually take place: the zinc will be heated outside the anchorage tunnels, then piped to the new sockets. Inside the anchorages, the sockets will have to be kept heated to at least six hundred degrees Fahrenheit, so that the zinc flows evenly around all the wires in the strands without leaving voids or cracks.

    The engineers considered using instead a dense plastic that can be poured as a liquid and allowed to harden in the sockets. The plastic would have removed the need to heat the whole assembly, and tests at Columbia and Lehigh University confirmed that it is more than strong enough to do the job. “But no installation using the plastic has been in service more than six or seven years,” said Bieniek. “We didn’t want to take a chance.”

    The engineers did not want to take a chance with the Bridge’s vertical wire-rope suspenders, either. “Superficially they looked fine,” said Birdsall. “But we thought we should take a closer look. Once we did, we found the molten metal used to form the sockets at the ends of the suspenders had not penetrated very far. The metal, probably lead, congealed at the big end of each socket.” Only a little bit of metal is keeping each suspender from pulling loose.

    While even this little bit seems enough—no suspender has ever failed— the engineers say the margin of safety is not too great. All the suspenders will be replaced. George Zaimes has suggested selling the old suspenders in short lengths as souvenirs. Some 500,000 pieces could be cut. At $50 each, Zaimes could raise $25 million to pay for more maintenance and repairs. The same thing was done with wire rope from the Golden Gate Bridge’s suspenders when they were replaced in the mid-1970s.

    The diagonal stays will also be replaced. They are badly corroded in spots, especially at the tops of the towers, where they pass through in rather untidy tangles. The Steinman firm has designed a neater system to hold the diagonals in place and lessen the chance of rust and of chafing against the stone towers themselves.

  9. #84
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    2 things about the red.

    1. It could have been sunset.
    2. Isn't there some form of sealant paint that was used that was red? (Lead or something....). I seem to remember something about that, but I may be mistaken. In any case that sealant paint would be inside the casing, not outside...

  10. #85

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    Primer paint for metalwork used to be called red lead. It would have been applied to the outside of the casing, not the inside. The cable strands were protected by some sort of wrap; they've been inspected, and unlike the deterioration at the anchorage eyebars, found to be in excellent condition.

    No evidence of red paint was ever found on the bridge. The paint now used is a zinc epoxy coating; the zinc functions as a sacrificial anode.

    I knew that the suspenders and stays were all replaced, but never knew that some of the main cable strands had to be cut and repaired. Seventy six of them hold up the bridge.

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  13. #88

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    Still painting...everything.




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