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Thread: The Brooklyn Nets

  1. #61
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    There is also Option 4 which could still happen: build an arena in Newark and create an identity for both the Nets and Newark.

  2. #62

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    No doubt, if Bergen County ever gets its act straight, Newark is a very real option.* Probably more realistic than Long Island and certainly more realistic than Brooklyn.* I also agree that b/c of mass transit, Newark has the "potential" to bring in a bigger gate.* Higher draws, however, do not necessarily create an identity!

    Here's a look at Net vs. Knick attendance in the pre-Ewing 80's:

    NJ NETS NY KNICKS
    1982 13, 875 10, 834
    1983 12, 947 10, 703
    1984 12, 499 12, 096
    1985 12, 243 11, 154

    So much for mass transit being the end all and be all. Even so, it's not about tickets, it's about an identity.

    A team that proposed to change their name to Swampdragons, one who changes uniforms every 5 years, one who (even when attendance is good) still can't come close to matching the Knicks in TV ratings, stadium advertising, merchandising, and press coverage, despite the back-to-back conference championships, despite the fact that many predict another gloomy season for the, Dolan Knicks, and are still worth $150 milly less than their Manhattan rivals, has, ZERO identity!

    Newark won't make the TV ratings in Hoboken or Clifton (let alone NYC) blink. Instead, moving from East Rutherford to Newark would be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Brooklyn, on the other hand...

    Again, so far Bruce Ratner only has an imaginary arena for the Nets to play in. But, IF he could get one built, Brooklyn would equal any local (anti-Manhattan) identity that Long Island has always had with the Islanders, while also matching the national identity that Los Angeles (from Wilt, to Kareem, to Magic, to Shaq) has always had with the Lakers.

    For whatever the reason, America simply cares about Brooklyn in a way that they don't care about Manhattan's other neighbors.* Including Newark...

    Remember:* A tree does not grow in Newark, there is no last exit 'til Newark, Willy Loman did not kill himself in Newark, Ralph Kramden did not drive a bus in Newark, Tony Manero did not dance in Newark, Mookie did not do the right thing in Newark, and there's a reason Posh and Beckham did not name their son, Newark!

    But back to today's sports world, here are the baseball numbers:

    Newark Bears Long Island Ducks Brooklyn Cyclones
    2002: 3, 209 6, 158 8, 345
    2003: 3, 032 6, 019 8, 308

    Forget the actual attendance where Newark gets doubled by Long Island and almost tripled by Brooklyn...

    Does anyone think that Newark, the only of the three teams to have:
    won a championship, a "downtown" stadium, a former all-star, like Jose Lima, as well as a future hall-of-famer, like Rickey Henderson, comes even close to touching Long Island, and ESPECIALLY Brooklyn, in press coverage, merchandising, and general revenue?

    Think Newark will ever get the mini-TV package that Brooklyn gets from Fox-Sports New York?

    Bottom line is, that in creating an identity, Brooklyn is the Net's best bet. And that's coming from someone who hopes Charles Wang wins this auction!

  3. #63
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    Remember: A tree does not grow in Newark, there is no last exit 'til Newark, Willy Loman did not kill himself in Newark, Ralph Kramden did not drive a bus in Newark, Tony Manero did not dance in Newark, Mookie did not do the right thing in Newark, and there's a reason Posh and Beckham did not name their son, Newark!
    Please...

    I used to work in Downtown Newark on Halsey street, Newark has lots of workers who would go to Nets/Devils games. Plus there's thousands of Rutgers, UMNNJ, Seton Hall University students in and around Newark, Seton Hall would play their basketball games in the Newark Arena.

    Newark is the largest City in the Wealthiest State in the Nation.

    Newark is the home to Prudential insurance/Financial World Headquarters (they used to sponsor the NBA halftime report on NBC), Verizon employs thousands in Downtown Newark, as does Blue Cross/Blue Shield, IDT employs thousands in Downtown Newark, the Customs are moving to Downtown Newark, Newark Airport was NYC's first Airport!

    There are two large commuter rail stations in Downtown Newark, serving several NJ Transit lines. The Newark Subway/Light rail etc..

    Newark suffered from White flight in the Late 1960s because of racial riots after the murder of DR.Martin Luther King, cities like Newark, Detroit etc were thriving metropolises before the riots. If it were not for the galant efforts by Mayor John Lindsey NYC would be a shell of what it is today.

    During the 1960s people from NYC (my Mother included) would travel to Downtown Newark to shop, Downtown Newark (Broad Street) was home to many famous department stores.

    It's a shame what has become of Newark, but something like the Newark Arena is what's needed to keep the thousands of day time workers in the City to spend money.

  4. #64
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    Newark IS coming back, though. Albeit at the expense of NYC.

    Backstabbing Customs agents...

  5. #65

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    Bottom line, as Scope said, Brooklyn is the only place in this metropolitan area that can almost rival Manhattan's national stage presence, not to mention that as it's own city over 100 years ago, it was way bigger than every other city in this area and would still be 4th largest today. Add to that fact, that one in seven people have some connection to this "borough" and you can see why America loves Brooklyn and why it would be a good choice in terms of marketibility and presence.

    If 1% of Newark's, Jersey's largest city, population goes to a game that's 2,735 people. If 1% of just Brooklyn's population goes to a game that's 24,652 people and sounds like a sellout to me. In my opinion, there's no real contest, however, i'm not holding my breath yet on the Nets making it over the Hudson and East Rivers, as much as I'd like to see it.

  6. #66

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    November 2, 2003

    CITY PEOPLE

    Coney Island Brings Forth a Basketball Star. Again.

    By BEN OSBORNE


    Sebastian Telfair, one of the nation's best high school players, getting his hair cut by Arva White, who wears his most famous customer's number.

    It was early October. As Sebastian Telfair, better known as Bassy, dribbled a basketball and smiled for the camera, a small crowd gathered to watch. One of the onlookers on this corner in Coney Island, a middle-aged man with several gold teeth and the unmistakable aroma of liquor, started shouting proudly.

    "We've had some great ones here, and we love Stephon,'' he yelled, referring to Telfair's cousin Stephon Marbury, a Coney Island native who is now a point guard for the Phoenix Suns. "But none of them are better than Bassy.''

    When the man left, Telfair and others chuckled. But there was an element of truth to his words. While most New Yorkers view Coney Island as the historical site of summer revelry, to local residents it is more importantly one of the world's greatest sources of basketball talent. The latest shining example of this is Telfair, 18 years old, a senior point guard at Coney Island's Lincoln High whose incredible court sense and perfect command of the fundamentals has made him one of the nation's best high school players.

    "As the kids grow up, it's like they're taking a torch,'' said Andrew Amigo, Telfair's personal trainer, about the neighborhood's remarkable string of homegrown basketball prodigies.

    Telfair, who has a quick smile and cherubic face, said, "Maybe there's something in the water here."

    Given this success, it's not surprising that the sport dominates local thinking. "When you ask me about Coney Island, basketball is going to be the first thing to come up,'' Telfair said one day earlier this month. He was sitting on a bench near the well-maintained court at Surfside Gardens, the housing project where he and his brother Jamel Thomas, now playing professionally in Greece, grew up, as did Marbury and his four college-playing brothers. "Every building you walk out of,'' Telfair said, "you're going to see a basketball court right there.''

    A strong loyalty to the neighborhood is part of the tradition, too, and it starts with the budding stars' choice of school. Many of America's top high school players attend private schools on scholarship, but Telfair is happy to play at his local public school, just like his brothers and cousins. "My decision to go to Lincoln was easy,'' Telfair said.

    This devotion has paid big dividends to the school. The Lincoln basketball team has been among the city's best for the past 20 years, and, with Telfair, at 6 feet 1 inch, running the show, the current team has won two straight city titles and will begin this season as one of the nation's top teams.

    There is nothing gilt-edged about Lincoln High, a crowded school of middling academic performance, but the basketball team is rarely left wanting. It has a sponsorship deal with Adidas, the shoe giant, and uniforms made by an Italian designer. It is sifting through offers from schools nationwide that are desperate to have Lincoln play in their tournaments, all expenses paid.

    But it is not just through Lincoln High that Telfair, who plans to attend the University of Louisville before joining the pros, remains grounded to his neighborhood. He still lives in the same five-bedroom apartment that his parents, Otis and Erica, have occupied for 30 years.

    "Right now it's just me, my little brother, my little sister, and my parents, so everyone's got their own room,'' Telfair said, nodding toward his complex and adding, "I've probably had 60 relatives live in this building.''

    HIS roots in the surrounding blocks also run deep. He wears No. 31 on his jersey - a nod to 31st Street, which borders Surfside Gardens. And to watch Telfair walk the one block from the Surfside basketball court to his beloved hangout, Cut Close Barber Shop, is to see him slap five and ask "How you doing?" to people of all ages. And not surprisingly. "Most of the people around here, I've been seeing them my whole life," Telfair said.

    Inside Cut Close, Telfair's favorite barber, Arva White, beamed as he gave his most famous customer a shape-up. "Bassy's my man," said Mr. White, who is 23. "I've been cutting his hair since I was 15."

    Another barber, Xavier Frank, gestured at the images of Telfair that have been ripped out of magazines and local newspapers and plastered on the shop's mirrors. "Everybody loves him,'' he said. "Every time we'd get the new issue in here,'' he added, referring to a series of basketball-diary articles by Telfair in a sports magazine, "someone would come try and take it.''

    Telfair is only mildly interested in the attractions that made Coney Island nationally and even internationally famous. The beach? "Me and my trainer go there to run, to get a good workout in the sand, but I don't know about going for a swim." The Cyclones? "I did go to one game. It was nice." How about the world-famous rides? "I went over there when I was younger, and I'll still go hang out in the summertime, but I'm not that into it."

    But Telfair has noticed the improving business district along Mermaid Avenue, for years a tawdry, shabby shopping area. "There's a lot more going on than when I was younger," he said. "More parks for the kids. A lot of new stores. New subway station, a baseball team. We're doing good. Even got fiberglass backboards."

    To hear him tell it, Coney Island's basketball prodigies are improving, too.

    "The person you should be interviewing is my brother, Ethan Telfair,'' Telfair said. "He just turned 9 years old but he's really, really good. He's going to do some things that have never been done before.''

    Ben Osborne is the author of "The Brooklyn Cyclones: Hardball Dreams and the New Coney Island,'' to be published in April by New York University Press.

    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

  7. #67
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    If 1% of Newark's, Jersey's largest city, population goes to a game that's 2,735 people. If 1% of just Brooklyn's population goes to a game that's 24,652 people and sounds like a sellout to me.
    Don't compare the City of Newark to Brooklyn, compare Essex County to Kings County.

    The majority of the population of Kings County are immigrants, with lower household incomes than NJ's Northern Counties.

    Essex County is one of NJ's Weathiest, Essex County is prodominently White Upper Middleclass etc.

    The pool to which to sell season tickets in Central Jersey is better than the pool in Brooklyn, especially if you compare average household incomes which I gurantee you are about $10,000 more in Essex County than Kings County.

    Season tickets are expensive, as are luxury boxes. Wealthy people buy seaons tickets, corporations buy luxury boxes. Newark has corporate Headquarters (Prudential, IDT etc), plus very wealthy communities surrounding Newark (Montclair, Milburne, Short Hills etc.)

    There are no large corporations headquartered in Brooklyn who would spend tens of thousands on luxury boxes, and there are wealthy folks in Brooklyn but how many are actually Basketball fans?

    Newark also makes more sense when you factor in the Devils, who would not be allowed to move to Brooklyn because of NHL competition rules.

    I don't know if anyone's noticed but they are running tv commercials for Knicks tickets, the long streak of sell outs at the Garden is over. If folks in Brooklyn want to watch basketball there are plenty of open seats available at Knicks games.

  8. #68

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    The pool to which to sell season tickets in Central Jersey is better than the pool in Brooklyn, especially if you compare average household incomes which I gurantee you are about $10,000 more in Essex County than Kings County.
    While this may be true upon first inspection, let's take a closer look. Well, the current home of the Nets shares a border with this Essex County you speak about, and what has that pool done for them? Unless of course you think jumping over the border will magically cure the Nets woes. Then again, you, collectively, try and do the same things with our businesses, so I can see your rationale. Well if we want to play by those rules, guess who Brooklyn shares a border with? One's this place called Staten Island, which happens to have a higher income, just a mere $11,000 more, than this Essex place. There's also a county by the name of Queens which is almost on par, with, uh, Essex. And by the way, there's some place around here named Manhattan, which also boasts a higher median income. So to be fair to Brooklyn, all these median incomes are easily accessible. We also happen to be located on some long island.

    Season tickets are expensive, as are luxury boxes. Wealthy people buy seaons tickets, corporations buy luxury boxes. Newark has corporate Headquarters (Prudential, IDT etc), plus very wealthy communities surrounding Newark (Montclair, Milburne, Short Hills etc.)

    There are no large corporations headquartered in Brooklyn who would spend tens of thousands on luxury boxes, and there are wealthy folks in Brooklyn but how many are actually Basketball fans?
    I second that. But not before I first note that, to our misfortune, we happen to be in New York City, which is home to how many headquarters and corporations? (Well, at least while they're still on this side of the river.) Who will spend tens of thousands on luxury boxes? Probably some of the same people who pay millions for some houses out in Brooklyn they call brownstones or the same people who do it in the Village or either Upper ___ Side.

    By the way, Brooklyn happens to be well connected to these forgotton surrounding counties via various subway lines(??), bridges, highways, and uh, buses. Can you say the same of this Essex you speak of? For extra credit, do it without including NJ Turnpike or Garden State Parkway. Please feel free to include any facts as well.

    At any given rate, the sheer size of this entity known as New York mutes, at least business-wise, any argument, proportional or percentage-wise whereas money and selling products are concerned.

    For now, I guess we Brooklyn people just have no choice but to remain stuck with these outer-borough, forgotten "leeching" counties with empty seats in MSG and a measly 8 million souls. :roll:

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    One's this place called Staten Island, which happens to have a higher income, just a mere $11,000 more, than this Essex place
    Uh, from Staten Island it's easier to get to Downtown Newark than Downtown Brooklyn. It's also cheaper, $7 Verrazano, $6 for the Geothals or Bayonne Bridge.

  11. #71
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    Well if we want to play by those rules, guess who Brooklyn shares a border with? One's this place called Staten Island, which happens to have a higher income, just a mere $11,000 more, than this Essex place. There's also a county by the name of Queens which is almost on par, with, uh, Essex.
    The household income for residents of Northern NJ is higher than Queens , Brooklyn and Staten Island, I would be willing to bet the average household income for reasidents of Morris County NJ and Bergen County NJ (borders Essex County) is higher than Manhattan's.

    The best figures I could share right now is airport figures done by the Port Authority with regards to airport travelers, the typical Newark Airport traveler's household income is $86,000. The household income for the typical LGA and JFK airport traveler is $77,000.

  12. #72

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    Atlantic Avenue has 10 subway lines the LIRR and countless bus lines. 2.5 million people in Brooklyn. 4th largest city in the US. Neighborhoods where home prices are in excess of half a million dollars - Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Bay Ridge, Midwood, Bensonhurst, Manhattan Beach, Seagate, Sheepshead Bay, Madison, Mill Basin, Dyker Heights and on and on and on. Beyond belief that Brooklyn doesn't have a professional sports team right now

  13. #73

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    The household income for residents of Northern NJ is higher than Queens , Brooklyn and Staten Island, I would be willing to bet the average household income for reasidents of Morris County NJ and Bergen County NJ (borders Essex County) is higher than Manhattan's.
    Very true my good man. Only one problem: What have Morris and Bergen and the rest of affluent Northern NJ done for the Nets lately?

    The best figures I could share right now is airport figures done by the Port Authority with regards to airport travelers, the typical Newark Airport traveler's household income is $86,000. The household income for the typical LGA and JFK airport traveler is $77,000.
    You're stretching now. What airport travelers have to do with sports teams is beyond me. But since you want to talk about them, let's proceed. I wonder where the average Newark Airport traveler is headed to. Is it the world-class attractions of Newark or Jersey City? More than likely not. Now, these airport travelers you speak about don't come here with cars, so how are they to get to the Nets current home or Newark? Almost every single subway line in this city passes through Downtown Brooklyn. There's even one, the G line, that doesn't pass through Manhattan! Wow!

    Excitement aside, I understand you probably love Joisey, but keep everything in perspective and grounded in reality. Bottom line is, if Northern NJ was the best place for this team, this topic wouldn't have even come into existence. So argue for it all you want, but the facts still remain the same.

    Atlantic Avenue has 10 subway lines the LIRR and countless bus lines. 2.5 million people in Brooklyn. 4th largest city in the US. Neighborhoods where home prices are in excess of half a million dollars - Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Bay Ridge, Midwood, Bensonhurst, Manhattan Beach, Seagate, Sheepshead Bay, Madison, Mill Basin, Dyker Heights and on and on and on. Beyond belief that Brooklyn doesn't have a professional sports team right now
    Ditto.

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    Almost every single subway line in this city passes through Downtown Brooklyn. There's even one, the G line, that doesn't pass through Manhattan! Wow!
    Subways?

    Folks taking subways to Atlantic ave don't have the money to pay $2,000 for Season tickets.

    Newark has Penn Station, Broad Street station, and Newark Airport.

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    [quote]Bottom line is, if Northern NJ was the best place for this team, this topic wouldn't have even come into existence. So argue for it all you want, but the facts still remain the same.

    The Newark Arena would have been done a long time ago but reluctance by Governor McGreevey to pledge State money has hurt the project, that and the fact that Bergen County is fighting Essex County for the new Arena.

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