Reply With QuoteSomething doesn't seem right. That's a lot of money for rentals.
we're talking 800k per apartment. and i assume thats not counting land costs, since he already owned the site? i dont have a sense of per apt prices, but this seems rather high.
Something doesn't seem right. That's a lot of money for rentals.
I don't know, is a rental tower supposed to be that much cheaper than a condo?
I think it'd be useful to compare this project to Atelier or the Orion, on a unit-by-unit, or square footage basis. I think they'll end up being pretty similar.
No, I wasn't talking about the cost to build it. They should be comparable.
Rather, I was questioning the financial feasibility of doing rentals versus condos.
How many months and years of rent do you have to collect in order to get back your investment, let alone turn a profit?
Just assuming that 800k figure is right, per apartment, and to simplify, lets say all the units are studios or 1-br...current River Place alcoves are $2200, minimum...
1157 Units:
925.6 Units at market rate
231.4 Units Affordable
1157 x 800,000 = $925,600,000
925.6 x 2200 = $2,036,320/month
231.4 x 1100 = $254,540/month
Totaling $2,290,860 in rent per month, or $27,490,320 per year
Minus 25 doormen/maint. @ $45k each/yr, or $1,125,00 per year in salary
Minus, lets say $3 million a year for water (really random guess, sorry)
Leaving $23,365,320 profit/yr
925,600,000 / 23,365,320 = 39.614 years without bonds
(925,600,000-656,000,000 )/ 23,365,320 = 11.538 year with bonds
There is a ton missing there, but doesn't sound horribly off...
Aren't bonds just another form of a loan that the issuer must pay back?
How can one deduct the bond amount from the cost if you still end up having to pay it back?
Anyway, 40 years just to break even just doesn't sound right.
I was wondering the same thing -- because I've seen bonds both ways, but you are right, I think these are just tax free loans.
I rounded way up on the salaries, didn't factor for anything other than a large studio/single bedroom, so paying lower cumulative salary plus receiving higher rents per month can change the whole thing.
If the average rent for the market rate apartments was even $800 higher, the break even (going off the prior calculation) is only 29 years, vs 39 years, with no bonds. For every $500 increase in average rent price per month, the break even is 4 years shorter (no bonds):
$2200 is the 39 year break even above
$3000 leads to a 29 year break even
$4000 per month is 21 years
So really, I don't think the 800k per apartment is overly high. My friend, who also lives here in RPI, was speaking with a leasing agent downstairs, and the new building is supposed to put the old one to shame (which isn't overly hard, but could lead to HUGE rents). Guess we'll see!
After awhile of speculation...it appears construction is going forward, with more than just the single crane at the site. Seems like foundations are being dug, maybe we'll see some concrete soon.
From my observations over the years, the digging will take more than just a couple of months.
Figure anywhere from six to twelve months.
Btw, you used to take pictures.
What happened?
I can easily see a few more months of digging -- the concrete comment was just hope. Once good thing about w42 is how close to the surface the bedrock is -- very little dirt to go through (aside from the toxins they were cleaning out originally).
I think the picture comment was to me or lofter...it seems we both go in spurts. When we take them, there's a flood, when we don't, it's a complete drought.
Either way, I will try to get a few of the site & Atelier across the street soon.
It was directed at you.
lofter hasn't been around here lately.
Some big construction/security guy tried to stop me but I took the picture anyway. Still no correct height on the permits either.
Hopefully Silverstein has had an epiphany and does not choose Costas Kondylis again for 99 Church. I shudder to think that 6 Barclay may get a twin.
Last edited by Derek2k3; January 4th, 2007 at 11:03 PM.
That happens to me all the time -- even when standing on the sidewalk (happened to me yesterday at the Trump Condo-tel site).Originally Posted by Derek2k3
I want to say, "WTF are you to tell me what I can or can't do on a public street?" ...
Usually I just say, "oh, OK" -- and take a pic anyway
heh yea, I get it a lot in Brooklyn. Probably due to the amount of shoddy construction done there. Often I have to explain myself to someone from the trailer. I should start telling them I accept bribes.
Up close, RP1 doesn't look too bad, however in a skyline view, it just looks horrible.
Another brown blob, out of many on W. 42nd.
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