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Thread: Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

  1. #1
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.


    HMV on 42nd Street
    Food Court at AMC Theaters
    Bar Code
    WWF Restaurant
    Museum Company

    There are also more empty billboards than there have been in years. *

  2. #2

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    Yeah, One Times Square was looking pretty pathetic last time I saw it. *You could actually see the lame 60's style masonry that was underneath the signs all these years.

  3. #3

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    Though the food court was in a terrible location, a Museum Company in Times square was probably a bad idea to begin with, * Theme Restaurants were in trouble even before the recession, and night clubs come and go. *I guess HMV was the most surprising, though not really, because Virgin is in a much better location. *The retail on "New" 42nd st. never panned out the way Guilianni intended, methinks.

  4. #4
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Garden City, LI

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    I think the Museum Co. went bankrupt. *They closed most (or all) of their stores, incl. one on 5th Ave.

    HMV was also closing stores, including the one on 34 and 6th - now it's a massice Victoria's Secret.

    Not too surprised about Bar Code, kitsch video game bar.

    Was surprised about WWE, but themes never seem to do well in NYC (kinda nice, not a big fan of chains, etc).

    A test will be the new club - Show, supposed to be upscale, Moulin Rouge-like.

    It seems that some things are doing well, though - Toys r Us, Blue Fin (in the W), Noche. *

    I dunno, I think it was just those places.

    I would like to see more "attraction stores" - kinda over the top like Hershey's, T R Us, etc. *Also, more bars, clubs, restaurants. Make it like a party-fell area.

    Who knows. *Look at Vegas - went from sleeze to family to party to upscale.

  5. #5

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    The Bar Code closed? I've never been there, but that sign always stood out in my mind...

  6. #6

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    I was never too keen on the 42nd Street retail. *A McDonalds? A cybercafe? I don't think this is the stuff that dreams are made of. *New York has always stood out for the unique stores that are one-off deals, and for flagship ultra-luxury boutiques. *Not flashy mid-market chains.

  7. #7

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    NY is just getting ready for its rebirth.

  8. #8

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    "NY is just getting ready for its rebirth."

    Well, so is both Times Square and Lower Manhattan.

  9. #9

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    No long term trend here.
    Just tough times that will turn around.

  10. #10
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Garden City, LI

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    I kinda agree with the "rebirth" of TS, in a way. *They just had an article saying how Charley O's is going to close to be replaced by a more upscale place, fitting in with the new TS.

  11. #11

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    The best part of Barcode was the sign (I hope they keep it), once inside though it was quite lame game-wise (and ridiculously expensive). WWE was quite nice inside (went to a rave there) but seriously, who needs a "wrestling themed" restaurant? HMV as mentioned above has closed stores all over the city. The one on 86th and Lex is being turned into a Best Buy which personally I couldn't be more happy about!

  12. #12

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    The rebirth of 42st betwn 7th/8th was an Ed Koch / Mario Cuomo phenomina. Not Sir Rudys. Although the vision of a sanitized, Disney type mall, widwest shoppers delight sure to mesmerize all the nice Eurotrash visitors was probobly shared by his excellency.

  13. #13

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    Dear "Brain" -

    You know nothing, and are probably a suburban transplant. Giuliani is the best thing that eber happened to this city. You NEED an abrasive brush to clean a toilet, you follow?

  14. #14

    Default Bad Economy = Bad Times in T.S.

    Quote: from The Brain on 7:42 pm on Mar. 14, 2003
    Although the vision of a sanitized, Disney type mall, widwest shoppers delight sure to mesmerize all the nice Eurotrash visitors was probobly shared by his excellency.
    I'm shocked.
    But it's partially true.

  15. #15


    April 11, 2004


    For Retailers, Times Square Has Its Glitter Back


    The Red Lobster at 41st Street and Seventh Avenue is the chain's busiest new restaurant, a spokesman said.

    TIMES SQUARE is back, big time, in terms of retail sales and rental rates, brokers and other real estate executives say.

    A recent deal by Fleet Bank to lease 5,200 square feet of ground-floor space in the building at 1515 Broadway, between 44th and 45th Streets, produced a rent of $515 a square foot annually, according to executives with knowledge of the deal. That puts Times Square space almost in the same league as the gold coasts of Manhattan retailing, Fifth and Madison Avenues in the 50's and Madison in the 60's.

    Executives say that a combination of renewed tourism, increased night life and the presence of thousands of office workers in the new towers that have been built in the last decade have created larger-than-expected retail demand. This is a far cry from the 1980's, when the area was most noted for X-rated entertainment, pinball parlors and phony-identification shops and when the sidewalks were infested with three-card monte players and other con artists.

    "This is an area that is alive seven days a week, 18 hours a day," said David A. Green, an executive vice president of CB Richard Ellis, a brokerage and services company. He said he had helped bring retail tenants to the two towers developed by Boston Properties: 5 Times Square, on the west side of Seventh Avenue between 42nd and 41st Streets, and Times Square Tower, across Seventh Avenue from 5 Times Square.

    He said some retailers had been lured to the area by the possibility of attracting publicity to their brand in background shots of ABC television and MTV, which both have broadcast studios in the area, and the New Year's Eve celebration, which the Times Square Alliance estimates is watched on television by 500 million people worldwide.

    But he said many had been very pleasantly surprised by the numbers of people who had eaten in their restaurants or shopped in their stores. "The Red Lobster at 41st and Seventh is one of the top-grossing restaurants in the chain," Mr. Green said. A spokesman for Red Lobster, which is based in Orlando, Fla., said the location in Times Square was the busiest new restaurant in the organization. While declining to give sales figures for the Times Square store, the spokesman said the average Red Lobster has sales of $3.7 million annually.

    "Times Square and Midtown have come back nicely" from the economic downturn, said Faith H. Consolo, vice chairwoman of Garrick-Aug, a brokerage company specializing in retail space.

    But unlike the luxury corridor along Fifth and Madison Avenues where high-income people shop for expensive goods, she said, Times Square is a vibrant mix where it is practical to place a Godiva chocolate store next to one selling sneakers (Athlete's Foot). "Times Square draws people and families of all ages and socioeconomic groups; you can put food and shoes next to each other," Ms. Consolo said. "Nothing is wrong in Times Square."

    Robert Selsam, a senior vice president of Boston Properties, said all the retail space at 5 Times Square had been leased, including a new location on 42nd Street east of Seventh Avenue for the Times Square Brewery restaurant, which was previously between Seventh and Broadway, where Times Square Tower now stands. "We had to shut them down to build," he said.

    Marketing of the retail space in Times Square Tower is just getting under way, he said, since construction shielding is being removed. "You could not see the space until last week," he said.

    Times Square Tower will have three levels of retail space: the ground floor and one level above and below. Although ground-floor space may be in the $500-a-square-foot range, lower rents for the less desirable second-floor and below-ground space results in a lowered average rent. "Most of the deals I have seen have been in the $300-to-$350-a-square-foot range," Ms. Consolo said.

    Even so, retail rents are higher than for office space, particularly on a second floor or in a basement, and Mr. Selsam said he wanted multilevel restaurants and stores in the building. "One could have the street and go up, another could have the street and go down," he said.

    Another hot retail property in the area, generally defined as the "bow tie" where Broadway and Seventh Avenue cross, is Quiksilver, which sells surfing-themed clothing and other items.

    Surfing in Times Square?

    "It appeals to anyone who has been on a snowboard or skateboard as well," said John J. Gilbert, executive vice president of Rudin Management, which manages 3 Times Square at the northwest corner of Seventh Avenue and 42nd Street, where the store is. "They are looking for a type of lifestyle."

    And if the buttoned-down executives in the tower above are not interested in dressing like surfers, their children may be. "There is a big teenage market there," said Benjamin Fox, a partner in Newmark New Spectrum, a retail-oriented brokerage company. He said the heavy pedestrian flows in Times Square (the alliance estimates 1.5 million people a day) and the store's prominent corner location drew customers. "It is the old question of whether you want to pay expensive rent or buy expensive advertising, to get the brand name out," he said.

    Michael Hirschfeld, of the Urban Retail Real Estate Development Group of Westport, Conn., who represented Australia-based Quiksilver in talks for the location, said: "Things are flying out the door. The store is close to doing 100 percent better than the first-year forecast."

    He said the store had different product lines for boys and girls as well as adult men and women. "It fits the kind of people who go to Times Square," he said. "The whole family can shop there."

    Times Square was always a desirable retail location because of its position at the hub of transportation, Mr. Fox said, until it started to seriously deteriorate in the late 1970's. Even afterward, he said, "there was a sizable office population in the area in dire need of retail services."

    He said that when he helped place a Gap store at the southeast corner of Broadway and 42nd in 1993 before the area's redevelopment began sales were so brisk that the store expanded within months.

    Now, after a redevelopment program that demolished most of the old buildings in the area and replaced them with $3 billion to $4 billion in new construction, ground-floor rents of $500 a square foot demonstrate the location's appeal, Mr. Fox said.

    There is retail space available in the Times Square area, Mr. Green said, "but most of it has a story."

    A story, in real estate parlance, can mean a marketing difficulty because of the configuration of the space, its size or other problems. For example, the triangular building at One Times Square that most recently housed a Warner Brothers Studio store on its ground floor, now stands vacant except for the huge outdoor signs that provide most of its income.

    The signs block most of the windows on the upper floors, making them even more unsuitable for office tenants than the basic layout dictates.

    Nevertheless, Richard Hodos, president of Madison HGCD, a retail broker who represents the building, said he was talking to an apparel maker who was interested in renting the ground floor for a store if he could lease the upper floors to tenants who did not want windows, like operators of textile showrooms.

    But a landlord with a 3,000-square-foot space and no story should have little difficulty finding a tenant even if he is asking $500 a square foot, said Mr. Green, who added, "The rents are sustainable because the business is there."

    Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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