New York Times Tower - 620 Eighth Avenue @ W. 41st Street - by Renzo Piano

[macreator]

Kind of an interesting shot of the Times Building I found while browsing Flickr.

Shot by Flickr user Raven Zachary

[TREPYE]

treype: Seagrams? thought and analysis? There is probably NO other post WW2 skyscraper that has had so much written about... that has been so studied and picked apart. There WAS a time when modern skyscrapers were actually national news. The Times tower hasnt even had its debut yet, but one thing I will guarantee you, no matter how much we like it (and I sure do), it will not have the cultural impact that the Seagrams did... nor will Renzo Piano.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildi..._Building.html

3-dimensionality achieved without monkey-business:

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bi...d_2921866.html

http://www.masck.com/arch/seagram.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Mies_van_der_Rohe

http://www.miesbcn.com/en/foundation.html

----

Thank you for the information Fabrizio. But I was talking about the virtues of the NYTimes tower in a more personal sense. To me the NYTimes tower provokes my curiosity and pleases me a lot more to look at than the Seagram's does. And due to the inevitable variability of taste I cannot see the Seagram's in the same light as a lot of others. To me it represents the beginning of a movement that drowned the NYC skyline- modernism. It was definitely a pioneer. But due to its virtues (mostly financial practicality IMO) it led to an era in which many have tried to emulate it and an opportunity to exhibit architectural variety was lost.

[NYguy]

JANUARY 14, 2007

[Fabrizio]

treype: if I bust your nutz: you have to remember I am one of the oldsters here (at least compared to some of you)... I want to provoke some thought and research.

[finnman69]

It's from this distance when the building works and looks it best. From the distance of 1 to 5 blocks away. You can see through the screens at this distance and it works. Move 1/2 a mile away and you cant see through them.

I wonder if the tenants on all of the floors have to use the same lighting, simialr to the Seagram building.

While I'm not as enthusiastically receptive of the building as lofter is, I definitely like it, and don't think it's a prison-in-the-sky. These pics are from last week, and hopefully they show some of the effects of the lighting that lofter's talking about. (Also, if people are seeing red X's on these, please let me know, because I've been wanting to upload a ton of photos from last week, and haven't found a reliable photosharing website yet.)

[ZippyTheChimp]

The building is a warm grey color, because it's painted with warm gray paint, not because of the gaps between the rods.

Also, if they removed every other rod, it would not darken the building (it would let more light to the glass behind it), but it would increase the transparency, thereby emphasizing the depth of the double wall, which adds a great deal of richness to the facade.

There are no rods at all on the X-braced part of the building. To my eye, it's darker.

If the rods were more oblong, they could bounce more light into the space and provide greater shading while providing less visual obstruction from the interior. My issue with the rods is when they are viewed from a distance of 1/2 a mile or more away and the screen takes on a solid appearance. At that distance, I do not like the 'window' gaps in the screen which then dominate the facade. yhey appear as giant razor blades hung on the building.

That observation is correct, but at 1/2 mile, your eyes would still not be able to resolve the rods into individual components. If they were spaced twice as far apart; the wall would still appear solid, but more of the darker glass component would be shown, darkening the overall tone. I'm sure you've seen the building close-up. Don't the individual rods appear much lighter than the entire wall at a distance?

Will the rods reduce glare into the interior, absolutely. Will they bounce light into the interior? Maybe. Will they block light into the interior? Without a doubt. Does 40% of the office space facade have no rod screening? Yes.

But we still can't know if they work.

But c'mon, the ceramic screen is there mainly because it looks cool and creates a semi-diaphonous layer, not because it really works as a sunscreen.

I'm not about to get into Piano's head, but given this project was Ratner's first foray into more than mundane architecture, I don't think Piano would have sold him on the added expense based on aesthetics alone.

I'm not going to say anything about the Hearst building, and risk a spillover debate. It should have been one unit (8 floors) taller.
Jeez, said it anyway.

[ZippyTheChimp]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the shading.

I agree that a polarizing design is beneficial to architectural discussion. No one debates 55 Water.

[NYatKNIGHT]

I hear what you are saying finnman, you wish the rods looked whiter. But I think it's important to note that the rods are white when viewed up close, not french gray. Being cylindrical, they spread the light and shadows they reflect, doing what they are supposed to do. The rods in our retinas serve the same purpose.

[lofter1]

Yesterday they were using external pulley-system scaffolding to do repair work on the rod curtain at the north facade (replacing rods damaged during construction, etc.).

It seems to me that the rod curtain now appears to be a lighter shade and contrasts more sharply with the darker grey of the steel of the tower -- so perhaps they've been cleaning the construction grit off the rods as well

[ramvid01]

Curious. A window washing rig cannot fit between the rods and the glazing, it looks to be just under 24" deep. Same goes for cleaning the rods. Was the rig hung from davits or from some type of built in adjustable crane arm system? Does a rig ride outboard of the rods and someone reaches around the rods to clean the glass?

Just wait till it rains, or a nice wind comes along.

[lofter1]

Curious. A window washing rig cannot fit between the rods and the glazing, it looks to be just under 24" deep. Same goes for cleaning the rods. Was the rig hung from davits or from some type of built in adjustable crane arm system? Does a rig ride outboard of the rods and someone reaches around the rods to clean the glass?

Not sure where the rig was hung from -- it was riding outboard -- and there were ropes going way up.

Maybe they were using these (I find they word great on venetian blinds ) ...

[millertime83]

Sunday was a cloudy day. It made the building look nice. This is the corner of 41st and 8th.

[krulltime]

^ So Gotham! This building deffenetly screams 'NYC.'

[antinimby]

They've got a shorter one in Toronto also.

I guess it screams 'Toronto' as well.

[NoyokA]

Just my opinion but I think it would be a better fit in Detroit or Buffalo.