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Thread: JFK Int'l Airport - International Arrivals Building, Terminal 4 - by S.O.M

  1. #16


    And Pan Am was the cat's meow.

  2. #17


    terminal 9 was demolished during 2005 or early 2006. I cheched the GlobExplorer Image atlas and it's not there anymore. Terminal 8 should be under demolition right about now. Or has it already completed its destruction?

  3. #18


    ^Check again. The new Terminal 9, which opened only a few months ago, is one of the largest at JFK (it's cavernous, actually). Parts of the old T9 remained in use while the new terminal was being built. Almost all of AA's domestic and international flights now use the new terminal instead of the original AA terminal (Terminal 8). In this photo, taken while T9 was still under construction but nothing remained of the old T9, the large, gray-roofed structures on the on the left are parts of T9; T8 is on the right. There is an underground passage connecting the two main parts of the new terminal.

    Last edited by ManhattanKnight; September 26th, 2007 at 07:59 PM.

  4. #19


    Quote Originally Posted by ManhattanKnight View Post
    ^Check again. The new Terminal 9, which opened only a few months ago, is one of the largest at JFK (it's cavernous, actually). Parts of the old T9 remained in use while the new terminal was being built. Almost all of AA's domestic and international flights now use the new terminal instead of the original AA terminal (Terminal 8). In this photo, taken while T9 was still under construction but nothing remained of the old T9, the large, gray-roofed structures on the on the left are parts of T9; T8 is on the right. There is an underground passage connecting the two main parts of the new terminal.

    !. When was this aerial photo taken? If so, is it outdated?
    2. Why is the old Terminal 8 not under demolition?
    3. I thought the new Mega Terminal was not supposed to open until every portion of it is completed.
    4. When was the old Terminal 9 destroyed?

  5. #20



    JFK Burns Out On Jet Age Terminals

    SOM will expand Terminal 4 for Delta,
    tearing down the iconic if unloved midcentury Terminal 3

    SOM is designing an expanded Terminal 4 at JFK, which will include nine new gates for Delta Airlines.

    JFK airport is entering a new jet age—one without many of the iconic terminals that defined the previous one and established the cool, hyper-modern look of flying for generations of travelers. To that end, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey announced an agreement today with Delta Airlines for a $1.2 billion expansion of Terminal 4 that will lead to the subsequent demolition of Terminal 3, the former Pan Am Worldport.

    Designed by Tippetts-Abbett-McCarthy-Stratton, the 1960 Terminal 3 is famous for its flying saucer–like shape and rooftop parking, and for receiving the Beatles for their historic arrival in America, though a 1972 expansion has marred its original character and led to numerous complaints about it being the worst of JFK’s eight terminals. The Port Authority and Delta insist the building is beyond repair, arguing that its replacement with taxiways and plane parking will improve efficiency at JFK, by some measures the most congested airport in the world.

    The original Terminal 3 was considered revolutionary when it opened, but it soon became outmoded
    due to larger planes and a later expansion that destroyed much of its charm.

    “There are always people who want to preserve our heritage and I sympathize with that,” Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said at a City Hall press conference, where the new plans were unveiled today. “But you can’t preserve everything. You have to strike the right balance and make room for new airports, new parks, new development.”

    Even if there were room for Terminal 3, Delta CEO Richard Anderson said the Worldport would not be worth keeping. “The terminal is fully depreciated,” he said. “It’s not an asset you can recover at this point. We put a lot of money into it to keep it going, and we will for three more years, but we can’t put anything more into it.”

    Top to Bottom: Terminals 2, 3, and 4 today.

    When the project is finished, Terminal 4's Concourse B will expand by 9 gates, a
    connector will extend to Terminal 2, and Terminal 3 will be replaced by plane parking and taxiways.

    Terminal 3 will not be demolished until 2013, when the expansion of Terminal 4 is due to be completed. That project is being designed by SOM, who designed the rest of Terminal 4, and will include nine new gates for Delta, for a total of 25, 16 of which will be used by Delta for its international flights. A connection will be built with Terminal 2, which will continue to serve Delta’s domestic passengers, and security and baggage handling facilities will be expanded to accommodate the additional passengers. Otherwise the terminal will look much as it did when it opened in 2001.

    Port Authority executive director Chris Ward said there will be no interruption in service due to the project, nor would the expanded terminal cause additional delays at the busy airport. “If anything, it will improve it, providing Delta with a more efficient operation,” Ward said. This is because the elimination of Terminal 3 will allow for double taxiways for both Terminal 2 and 4, and parking for planes so they may move between the gates, runway, and hangar more readily.

    A new connector between Delta's Terminal 2 and the expanded Terminal 4.

    The announcement has still given preservationists some pause. “Perhaps the Port Authority should have some preservation plan of action,” said Nina Rappaport, chair of Docomomo-New York/Tristate. “And not just for airports but all their properties. Because transportation involves so much modern technology and architecture, perhaps they need to look more closely at preservation.” As for the Port Authority and Delta’s contention that it would be a hindrance, financially and functionally, to keep even part of the building, she replied: “It just takes foresight.”

    Rappaport said her larger concern remains the preservation of I.M. Pei’s Terminal 6, which is slated for demolition next year to make way for another expansion of JetBlue’s facilities. Susan Baer, who was named the Port Authority’s director of aviation last fall, said that neither has been deemed worthy of retaining. “In the environmental review, all our experts said that Terminal 6 could come down but that we should save Saarinen, the significant one,” Baer said. She added that the $20 million renovation of Terminal 5 is nearly complete, though a Port Authority spokesperson said an opening date has not yet been set.

    Security facilities will be expanded to cope with more passengers as well as new measures implimented since the terminal opened in 2001.

    John Morris Dixon, the former editor of Progressive Architecture, said he remembers Pan Am’s Terminal 3 fondly, from when he wrote about it for the magazine when it first opened. “You had this great statement, this canopy, with the planes nuzzling in beneath it,” he said. “But it was outdated almost immediately” due to the trend toward ever larger planes. He agrees that the 1972 addition has made the terminal “miserable,” akin to what Robert Moses did to Penn Station, and noted that mounting a case for its salvation will be difficult.

    “It’s such a great idea, and so unique,” Dixon said. “I don’t know if there’s another circular terminal like it. But I just think it’s damned anyway. I don’t know if any amount of preservation lobbying would make a difference, and I don’t know what the argument would be. What are they going to do with another structure there with no assigned use? They’ve already got that with TWA.”

    Matt Chaban

    Copyright © 2003-2010 | The Architect's Newspaper, LLC

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Washington, DC

    Default Worldport, or Sundrome?

    In light of Hizzoner's obdurate refusal to allow even a hearing about protecting the old Huntington Hartford gallery before it was slashed and bludgeoned into its present ridiculous form, for the Mayor to say “There are always people who want to preserve our heritage and I sympathize with that” is little more than self-aggrandizing empty posturing.

    But on the merits of saving the Worldport, all I can say is that preservationists should concentrate on saving the front part of I.M. Pei's Sundrome instead.

  7. #22
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    The Future Future of JFK Terminal 4

    by Matt Chaban

    JFK Terminal 4, with 30 additional gates, as planned for some time in the future. (CLICK TO ZOOM)

    If this rendering of Terminal 4 at JFK looks familiar, good. That means you’re reading, as it, or something very much like it, was in our story last week about the Port Authority and Delta’s plans for expanding the terminal. What is different, though, if you look closely, is the number of gates. This rendering was released by Delta last week, though it initially confounded us because the talk had been of nine new gates, not the 30 we counted when we compared it to the terminal’s current layout, which you can see and compare after the jump. It turns out, the wrong rendering had been released, and this is in fact the ultimate plans for the future development of Terminal 4, with 10 new gates on Concourse A (right) and 11 more added to Delta’s nine on Concourse B (left). That makes for a total of 46 gates—larger than some mid-sized airports—up from a current 16. No wonder they have to tear down Terminal 3 to make room for more plane parking. But not before Hal Hayes has something to say about it.

    Terminal 4 today, with 16 gates.

    Hayes was the lead planner at SOM when it created the current Terminal 4 a decade-and-a-half ago, and then he filled a similar role at HOK when it developed a prior plan for Delta at JFK. Now on his own, the architect takes issue with the preservationists we spoke to last week—to his mind, Terminal 3 is easily the most important of all at JFK, even compared to Saarinen’s Terminal 5, which he said is formally but not functionally groundbreaking. As for the threatened Terminal 6 by I.M. Pei, Hayes said Terminal 3 is “superior to Pei, especially in terms of aviation architecture. Pei’s is a pretty corporate box, but it could be anywhere.” Terminal 3, however, had an unparalleled design that allowed for passenger loading and maintenance to take place all under its unique canopy. “This is really the place that established the paradigm for airport architecture, and these terminals were treated like international headquarters, intended to be corporate icons,” Hayes said of JFK.

    Terminal 4 in 2015, after Delta has added nine new gates and Terminal 3 has been torn down to make way for parking and taxiways.

    Hayes said the biggest problem is that Terminal 3 “suffers from a no-name architect,” otherwise it might have a better shot at preservation—something he insists would be far easier than the Port Authority, Delta, or even some preservationists will allow. He proposes demolishing the ’70s addition, running the connector Delta is planning between terminals 2 and 4 through the old Terminal 3, and turning it into a grand mall of some sort, with the shops and eateries that are now familiar to any airport. As for the Port Authority’s insistence that there is no room for even remnants of the building, Hayes disagrees. “They can leave it pretty much where it is and not impact the new terminals or the parking one iota,” Hayes said. He should know, as this is precisely what his previous plans called for.

    UPDATE: It was just announced that AECOM has won the $11 million contract to oversee construction on the terminal project. Is there anything they can do?

  8. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Guilderland, NY


    Demolition of terminal 6 has began.

  9. #24


    I think the new T4 is fine and an improvement over T3 for Delta, but I don't like this bridge to T2 idea. JFK has such a shitty layout though, and is crap compared to the new designs. Should have bulldozed it all back when they had the chance and built a couple of mega terminals + a proper rail link, not a half-baked 2 seat ride. NYC really has a long way to go to catch up to the airport system infrastructure of its peer cities around the world.

    If JFK could expand a new terminal could be built to serve a new runway away from the central core, perhaps. If they don't expand one of their airports, they are stuck and will start to lose out economically. It's only a matter of time before expansion talks will start and the fight will begin.
    Last edited by futurecity; July 24th, 2011 at 07:51 PM.

  10. #25


    I always thought they should demo Ts 2 and 3, and bridge T1 and T4 into one large terminal.

  11. #26
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    East Midtown


    It's bad enough that that bridge has the most absurd path, but the fact that it seems to have barely any ceiling height is ridiculous. On a project of this scale, couldn't we have gotten higher ceilings on the ped bridge or at least a skylight?

  12. #27


    What are the plans to replace it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LightningEagle View Post
    Demolition of terminal 6 has began.

  13. #28
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Oct 2002



    JFK's Once Futuristic Pan Am Terminal Is In Danger of Getting Torn Down

    by Kate Flynn

    The original architects of the Pan Am Worldport might have hoped that the building would fit in perfectly with the landscape of the new millennium.

    The terminal at New York’s JFK Airport was built in 1960 by Ives, Turano & Gardner Associated Architects in the shape of a futuristic flying saucer. It made its mark on American cultural history by sending off the Beatles after their first U.S. tour and appearing in at least one vintage James Bond adventure. Pan Am shuttered its ticket windows in 1991, but the Worldport still serves as a reminder that air travel was once seen as an exotic luxury, rather than a nuisance-riddled necessity.

    Although the Worldport is iconic, its current tenant, Delta Airlines, is planning to dismantle the structure, now known as Terminal 3, in 2015 to make way for a $1.2 billion expansion of neighboring Terminal 4. The original Worldport space will eventually be used as a parking lot for aircraft.

    Recently, an online campaign to preserve the terminal has been gaining traction, spearheaded by aviation enthusiast Kalev Savi and partner Anthony Stramaglia. Save The Pan Am Worldport aims to keep this iconic piece of aviation architecture from being demolished, and to see it refurbished and repurposed for new generations of jet-setters.

    "You just don’t see buildings like that anymore constructed at airports," says Stramaglia. "Now a terminal is more like a warehouse than a showpiece. This building is more of an art form."

    Delta Air Lines is the current tenant of the Worldport at JFK, now known as Terminal 3.

    Savi and Stramaglia started an online petition a little over a year ago that has garnered 1,818 signatures so far. Their current project is to get the Worldport approved for New York Landmark Status, with the eventual hope that it will be recognized with a spot on the National Register of Historic Places.

    Other terminals and structures at JFK have been recognized for their historic significance over the years, including the TWA Flight Center, a swooping dome that was completed in 1962 and designed by renowned Finnish American architect Eero Saarinen and added to the National Register of Historic Places in 2005. (It was also added to the 11 Most Endangered Historic Places list in 2003.)

    "In some people’s mind, that was the building worth saving," Savi says. "This criticism that there’s no famous architect associated with [the Worldport] I find to be a moot point."
    The New York Port Authority and Delta Airlines have said that the Worldport is beyond repair, and upkeep and maintenance have become impractical and costly. "It’s not an asset you can recover at this point," Delta CEO Richard Anderson was quoted as saying in The Architect’s Newspaper in 2010.

    The underside of the Worldport in 2011.

    Other complaints about the space include its small, cramped feel with the addition of baggage screening and TSA security checkpoints, which the architects didn’t have to consider in their original plans. It underwent a renovation in 1971 to accommodate the Boeing 747, but the interior space is still lagging behind modern airport standards. So far, the New York Port Authority and Delta haven’t responded to the campaign.

    Savi and Stramaglia think that the structure could be preserved with some outside-the-box thinking, and they argue that, in an age of generic cookie-cutter airports, Delta could make a branding statement by repurposing the building, or even housing an aviation history museum inside the terminal. They also posit that tearing the terminal down and paving it over is twice as expensive as the cost of repair and refurbishment.

    Save The Pan Am Worldport shows no signs of slowing down, and Savi and Stramaglia are hoping that they’ll be able to win some immunity from demolition for the flying saucer portion of the terminal before 2015. "It should be something that the public can enjoy, that can help them remember significant events from the past," Savi says. "It should be something that people want to go to."

  14. #29


    I'm not interested in keeping this building. There is nothing of interest architecturally IMO. The airport is currently half 3rd world, half decent. Terminal 2, 3 and 7 are all in need of replacement to meet modern standards for passenger experience and functionality. . Thankfully the new Terminal 4 project is nearly completed and this ugly saucer can be destroyed.

  15. #30
    Senior Member DUMBRo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Out Yonder...


    The saucer is awesome. It sould be protected and fully restored. The crappy addition to T3 should absolutely be demolished. So the connector would have to swing through some classic midcentury modern. How horrible.

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