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Thread: St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church

  1. #121
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The PA could try pointing towards THIS Recent Legal Publication in their answer to the Court.

    In particular:

    IV. Inspections and Seizures of Property ............ 33
    6. Eminent Domain; Public Health Law ............ 36

    Although to make that claim now the PA would have to admit going ass-backwards.

  2. #122
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC / CNN's Mary Snow View Post

    ... the demands of the Orthodox Church continued to increase over and above what was originally agreed to in 2008 ... further delaying the entire World Trade Center project, which was a completely unacceptable alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by BPC / Father Mark Arey View Post

    "It does not look good to bully a church."
    What about a church looking greedy, self serving and ostentatious?

  3. #123

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    By pointing out that the Port Authority has stolen their land and refused even discuss the matter with them over the last two years? That is "greedy, self-serving and ostentatious"???

    I submit that, were this to have occurred in the context of any entity more influential than this small community church, or one that made for a more politically fashionable cause among the City's left-leaning elites, the PA's assertion that it could simply decide that a landowner's demands were too high and therefore take the land out from under them, without bothering to initiate lawful process such as an eminent domain proceeding, would shock the conscience. But here there seems to be a "blame the victim" mentality which has set in.

  4. #124
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Neither side was dealing in good faith by the time this "deal" fell apart three years ago.

    Would everyone be happier if now the conflict was slowly working its way through some court, with the entire VSC and necessary components of the WTC on hold?

    And if it didn't involve a religious organization would there be the same reaction?

    I still don't understand why the St. Nicholas group didn't go to court as soon as the first shovel hit the ground.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC View Post

    ... a more politically fashionable cause among the City's left-leaning elites ...
    sheesh.

  6. #126

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    "It's not about money," Arey said.
    It is now.

    "How do we exchange fairly the church property, which included the ground and air rights at ground zero, for another piece of property at 130 Liberty St., which has smaller land specifications and no air rights." said Arey. "We went from a silo to a pancake."
    Smaller land specifications?

  7. #127
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The lot outlined on the church's deed is 2,400 sf.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPC View Post

    ... the church still retains the deed for the land where the house of worship stood and gave up the land to the Port Authority without any complaints in an effort to be part of the process.
    That's it in a nutshell, eh?

  8. #128
    Senior Member DMAG's Avatar
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    Why does a church need air rights?

    (This coming from a Greek Orthodox mind you.)

  9. #129

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    ^
    The air-rights determine the value of the property.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    ^
    The air-rights determine the value of the property.
    Gotcha. Thanks.

  11. #131
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Plus the angels need direct access to Jesus.

  12. #132
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    If the church has air rights then they might as well put them to good use -- or sell them. Not sure what nearby lots they could sell those rights to. The developer of the new 5WTC would be the logical buyer.

    That block is zoned C6-9:

    C6-4 through C6-9 districts, mapped mostly within the city's major business districts,
    permit a maximum FAR of 10.0 or 15.0 (exclusive of any applicable bonus).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The original church building was 3 stories, 24' x 100'. Seems they'd have an additional 7 - 12 stories (16,800 sf - 28,800 sf) to play with.

  13. #133

    Default Here is the Complaint.


  14. #134
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    That is a scathing Complaint (but aren't legal pleadings always that way?). Now we have to wait for the other shoe to drop and see what counter arguments the PA puts forth.

    Interesting that the Complaint repeatedly makes mention of the "term sheet" that the PA submitted to the Church (and on which the Church made notations -- described here by the Church as "relatively minor points") and which both sides apparently "agreed" to, although neither side seems to have ever signed a final agreement. But actual specifics from that "term sheet" are never quoted in the Complaint -- no sizes of structures, no square footage, no height, nothing. This seems especially odd due to the Church's use of numerous quotes from Governor Pataki, PA Executive Director Chris Ward and various PA Reports about some vague points that had been agreed to by both parties, and which are repeated -- over and over -- in the 37 pages, the 13 "Causes of Action" and the 164 enumerated paragraphs.

    The Complaint at it's core is a declaration of religious intolerance by a governmental agency (See P. 32 - 35, the Eleventh, Twelfth and Thirteenth Causes of Action), with specific blame aimed at the PA's Chris Ward -- who is here depicted as a fraudulent heathen, slippery as a snake (as found on P. 3 - 4, Par. 7):

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #135

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    The Port Authority might have a plausible argument that an agreement in principle was never reached, had they not moved in and seized Church property. If there were no agreement , what legal authority did they have to dig a ten story hole in Church property, redering it unuseable? This is not an eminent domain case. Eminent domain requires a Court order, and provides for due process. Here, the Port Authority just moved in with the bulldozers and stole Church property. Basically, it appeared that the Church was snookered into believing that the other side was actinfg in good faith, when clearly it was not. This is New York City real estate. They ought to have known better. Now it is up to the Courts to fashion a remedy. My guess is that Church is never getting rebuilt. The PA, somewhere down the line, will quietly cut a check, which will disappear into Church coffers, and that will be the end of it. A shame.

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