One more picture taken from the Lincoln Harbor.
One more picture taken from the Lincoln Harbor.
Actually, building a stadium there is a really bad idea. There is no transportation infrastructure to support it, it will most likely cause property value in the neighborhood to go down, not up, and besides, studies have shown that the majority of the target audiance for a sports stadium live in the Queens Brooklyn area anyway. Build it where the fan base is. This is Manhattan. A football stadium on the West side is an atrociously bad idea.
Actually, if the stadium is built, then the 7 train will be extended to reach it. *Furthermore, even though the target audience is in Queens and Brooklyn, Manhattan is still the easiest borough to reach from just about everywhere in NY. *Just try going from Queens to Brooklyn using public transportation. *It's a nightmare, and you probably wind up going through Manhattan anyway.
Jet fans from Queens will have an easier time getting to the west side than to the Meadowlands, especially since they'll be able to take a subway there. There are also numerous ferries that already go to Javits, so that's pretty decent transportation, no? In fact, I bet the fan base grows with so many more people being able to take in a Sunday afternoon game.
There is the 7 train extension that was mentioned, which is being done not only for the stadium, but to revitalize that entire neighborhood (Far West Midtown development). Also, the stadium will sit above the LIRR railyards. *If the fanbase from Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island can make it to Jersey, getting to Manhattan shouldn't be a problem. *And who says residents of Manhattan won't go to a stadium? *Build it, and they will come....Quote: from chris on 1:47 am on Nov. 6, 2002
Actually, building a stadium there is a really bad idea. There is no transportation infrastructure to support it.....and besides, studies have shown that the majority of the target audiance for a sports stadium live in the Queens Brooklyn area anyway.
(Edited by NYguy at 2:49 pm on Nov. 6, 2002)
Give me a break...
Statistically, two type of people attend live sporting events: families with children (come on son, let's go to the ballpark) and blue collar workers. That's a statistical fact. Single or married without children cosmopolitan professionals don't make a dent. There is a reason why all of our sports stadiums are in one of these areas: That is where the customers are, the burbs or blue collar neighborhoods.
Additionally, I'm not generally a Nimby, you can build whatever residential or commercial towers you want around here, I'm all for it but there are a few things I don't want built blocks away from me: a nuclear power plant, an airport, a prison, or a sports stadium. I own a home in this neighborhood. My life savings is tied up in the value of my home. It is typical that the building of any one of these things will destroy the value of the surrounding residential property. Like others that are opposed to this, in a worst case senario I could lose everything if they build this stupid thing.
Nobody in Manhattan wants it. That is what is so crazy. It is overwhelmingly opposed by the people that actually live here!
If you actually LIVE in Manhattan, or specifically, if you live on the west side then speak-up. If not, then shut the f*ck up. You're just a wanna-be anyway.
(Edited by chris at 3:07 pm on Nov. 6, 2002)
As someone who lives in Manhattan (albeit on the East side), I feel I have the right to participate in this debate...
Anyway, if a brand new, architecturally sound, high-tech stadium is built over what is now a barren field of rail lines, and in addition a major subway link is established into what is a grossly underserved area, I don't see how that would bring down property values. *Historically, apartment buildings near subway stops have gone up in value. *Also, a stadium would likely bring along with it a wealth of retailers and restaurants. *That can't be bad as well.
On a different note, I feel that nuclear power plants have unfairly gotten a bad rap. *How can you compare a clean, efficient power plant (less pollution than wind power) to an airport or a prison
I live in Manhattan. How can you say no one wants it - we must live in completely different circles because everyone I know wants one there, whether single, married, with kids, men, women, and not blue collar. I have no idea where you got the statistics about who goes to professional sports, but I am an avid sports fan and season ticket holder for three sports and that is not who I am seeing at these games. To be honest, it's at least as many professionals as blue collar, they have money, and I'm not seeing families from the burbs except at baseball games.
I have lived in other cities where the stadiums are in the heart of town and that is the best! I wish all the stadiums in New York were in Manhattan, how fun would that be? You really do go to events more if they are close by. In cities across America stadiums are being built in the heart of downtowns, and completely revitalizing the neighborhoods like what Coors Field did for Denver, or Camden Yards for Baltimore.
I can't believe you would lose everything Chris, especially since what is there is one of the worst parts of Manhattan - an embarrassing eyesore. The stadium may well save the neighborhood.
(Edited by NYatKNIGHT at 10:38 am on Nov. 7, 2002)
Nuclear power plants are cleaner than coal or gas power plants and do not kill birds like wind farms. They are unpopular because of widespread misconceptions.
I am used to Manhattan property values going only up. I would be curious to know whether ANY area in Manhattan declined in value let's say in the last ten years and a reason for the decline.
And, chris, the forum is open not only to residents of Manhattan, but also to residents of Queens and Brooklyn, illegal aliens and even citizens of some European countries.
"Maria Garcia of the Chelsea Owners and Tenants for Neighborhood Preservation said many people now oppose the 2012 Summer Games altogether - not just the stadium.
"The mayor is going to have a real fight on his hands," Garcia said.
On Saturday, the U.S. Olympic Committee voted to back New York City as its candidate to host the 2012 Olympic Games.
The decision means New York will have to compete against several foreign cities to host the games. A final decision will be made in 2005.
While many civic groups are behind the mayor's efforts to bring the games to New York for its potential economic benefits, opponents are marshaling their arguments, citing potential traffic, environmental consequences, terrorism concerns and costs.
While community boards in Flushing and Astoria are overwhelmingly in favor of having Flushing Meadows-Corona Park host rowing, canoeing, tennis, swimming and other events, some activists in Queens read only bad news in the glossy NYC2012 brochures.
Patricia Dolan, president of the Kew Gardens Hills Civic Association, is skeptical that the new construction will benefit residents of the borough.
Some of the plans for Flushing Meadows-Corona Park call for the merging of the two man-made lakes, new soccer fields and a new whitewater rafting facility.
"They [will] come in here and rip the heart out of our park and 17 days later they will pack up and go back to Manhattan," Dolan said. "
(Get me my barf bag. This is not Copenhagen. These "activists" are turning from NIMBY's to TEDAO's (Tear Everything Down At Once). If they had any more power they would be deliberately tearing down all subways, all shopping districts, all factory areas, and all skyscrapers, including the Chrysler Building. Wake up you TEDAO's! This is not West Side Story!)
(Edited by Agglomeration at 10:12 pm on Nov. 6, 2002)
Are you aware that the Giants, Yankees, and Mets all played games at the Polo Grounds? *A stadium in Manhattan? *Are you aware that Madison Square Garden, in the middle of Manhattan no less, is almost always sold out? *You say that you are not a NIMBY, but you sir are the worst kind of NIMBY. *You may own a home in Manhattan, but that doesn't make it your own personal kingdom. *And you had to know that large developments take place in Manhattan all the time, so you sir, gimme a break...Quote: from chris on 3:05 pm on Nov. 6, 2002
Give me a break...There is a reason why all of our sports stadiums are in one of these areas: That is where the customers are, the burbs or blue collar neighborhoods. *Additionally, I'm not generally a Nimby, you can build whatever.......If you actually LIVE in Manhattan, or specifically, if you live on the west side then speak-up. If not, then shut the f*ck up. You're just a wanna-be anyway.
Mayor tries on one-size-fits-all
W. Side stadium
By MICHAEL SAUL
Officials are considering a new high-tech West Side stadium that can shrink from a massive sports arena into an intimate concert hall with the flip of a switch.
After meeting with the U.S. Olympic Committee yesterday, Mayor Bloomberg said the stadium could be the new home of the New York Jets - and the Rangers and Knicks.
"There's no reason why ... you could not have multiple uses and multiple-size venues within the same building," he said.
An 86,000-seat stadium is a key component of the city's bid to play host to the 2012 Summer Games, but officials say the construction is going ahead regardless of whether New York wins.
The Incredible Shrinking Stadium is based on Japan's Saitama Super Arena, where the walls, ceiling, floors, seats, concession stands - even the plumbing - move.
The arena can be used as a stadium for more than 30,000 soccer fans, an arena for 20,000 or a hall for 5,000. The bathrooms can shift in 20 minutes to match a crowd's male-to-female ratio.
"It's a totally different world," said Dan Doctoroff, deputy mayor for economic development and rebuilding.
David Cornstein, chairman of the state Olympic Games Commission, called a shape-shifting stadium an intriguing idea but added, "The devil is in the details."
Doctoroff estimated the cost of the West Side development - a new stadium, expansion of the Javits Center and extension of the No. 7 subway train - at $3 billion.
He said it would be financed with a combination of private money, largely from the New York Jets, and taxes generated from the development of the surrounding area. Stadium tickets also might carry an extra charge.
I am having difficulty believing that a small technological miracle as a shifting stadium in Manhattan will only cost $3BN. *Nevertheless, given the expense of everything else in Manhattan, I think fans would be willing to spend an extra few dollars on tickets to help pay for the cost.
More from the NIMBYs...