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Thread: JFK Airport Terminal 5 - by Eero Saarinen | Renovation & Expansion - by gensler

  1. #46
    Forum Veteran Tectonic's Avatar
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    May 2007
    New York City


    Then who knows what they'll have to consider 15years from now.

  2. #47
    10 Barclay = Decepticon Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    Isle of Manna-hata


    If we haven't figured out how to teleport in 15 years, I'm going to be really pissed off at Hollywood.

  3. #48


    T9 (AA's new terminal) is nice and new. So in T4 (the old international arrivals building). The real laggard in T2-3 (Delta). They're going to have to spring for a rebuild soon.

  4. #49


    Kennedy Airport

    Departure Lounge to Nowhere

    David W. Dunlap/The New York Times
    Published: March 16, 2008

    IF the Jetsons had flown Trans World Airlines, they would have felt at home in its terminal at Kennedy Airport, a swooping, birdlike concrete building, designed by the architect Eero Saarinen, that fed its passengers out to their gates through dreamlike, windowless white tubes. The departure lounges were similarly futuristic: glassy flared cabins, outfitted with curving banquettes, padded sectional tables, and a rounded desk for the gate attendant.

    Last week, however, jacked up on timbers and amputated from its concourse in an out-of-the-way section of the old T.W.A. tarmac, the last remaining Saarinen departure lounge had little of that Jet Age glamour. In fact, it looked like nothing so much as the bow of a rusting beige ship.

    The story of how the lounge got there is an odd tale of airport diplomacy. JetBlue Airways is constructing a large, crescent-shaped terminal just behind the 46-year-old T.W.A. building, which has been shuttered since 2001. To make way for its new structure, the airline planned to demolish Saarinen’s original concourses and departure lounges, while preserving the far better known terminal and its connector tubes, which the Port Authority, the airport’s operator, will refurbish and reopen.

    But last April, to placate preservationists, the Port Authority agreed to spare a single Saarinen lounge. It spent $895,000 to saw the 700-ton structure off the concourse and haul it 1,500 feet out of the way. That feat was so gargantuan that a crew from the History Channel showed up to record it for a show called “Mega Movers.” There the lounge has sat for almost a year, while everyone ponders its future.

    Among those doing the pondering is Bill Hooper, an architect retained by JetBlue. “It’s like having an anvil sitting on a bunch of soda straws,” Mr. Hooper said the other day as he surveyed the lounge.

    The Municipal Art Society, a preservation group, argues that the lounge should be incorporated into JetBlue’s new terminal.

    “The lounge is a piece of DNA,” said Frank Sanchis, the society’s senior vice president. “With it, if someone ever wanted to restore the Saarinen building for use by smaller aircraft, they could see the foundations, how it was supported, the configuration of the glass, the slabs, the tiling. To throw away that opportunity is a tremendous waste.”

    But JetBlue has long maintained that it would be prohibitively expensive to restore the lounge, and difficult to put the structure to use. The Port Authority has come to agree, concluding that money available for restoration would be better used for the Saarinen terminal, known as the head house.

    Last month, with the approval of the state’s Historic Preservation Office, the authority gave JetBlue permission to demolish the lounge.

    At this point, even some preservationists approve. “We support this plan,” said Peg Breen, president of the Landmarks Conservancy. “Given that JetBlue doesn’t think it works with the design of the terminal, and that the money for restoring it could otherwise be used for the head house, we think that’s a more appropriate use.”

    Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company.

  5. #50
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Oct 2002


    Hotel Plan Set for Ghost Terminal


    An airline terminal at John F. Kennedy International Airport that started as a jet-age architectural icon but has become a security-age relic could be reopened as a boutique hotel.

    The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is looking for developers to turn the vacant Trans World Airlines Flight Center into the centerpiece of a small, high-end hotel that would allow the agency to reopen the terminal and recoup some of the money it spent restoring it.

    Photos: TWA Terminal: Past and Present

    View Slideshow

    The curving, winged terminal opened in 1962 at what was then Idlewild Airport. It became a symbol of the glamour of air travel. Its designer, Eero Saarinen, is considered a master of midcentury modernist architecture. Among his other works are St. Louis's Gateway Arch and Manhattan's CBS headquarters.

    But as baggage systems got more complex and security concerns grew along with the airport, the terminal became unwieldy. After a bankrupt TWA was bought by American Airlines in 2001, the terminal closed. JetBlue Airways eventually built a new facility around the Saarinen-designed building. Since then, it has sat empty. Attempts to find a tenant fell short. So in 2008, the Port Authority decided to spend $20 million to remove asbestos and restore the interior to better appeal to developers.

    Now, the agency hopes to find a developer who will build a small hotel in the space between the old TWA terminal and the new JetBlue building. The interior of the TWA space would serve as an entry way and lobby for the hotel with restaurants and shops.

    "You can have perhaps the hippest, coolest-looking front office to a boutique hotel that serves a very special and unique air traveling market," said Port Authority Executive Director Chris Ward. "It's not a big airport hotel. It's going to be a niche-market boutique-style hotel with about 150 rooms."

    The Port Authority issued a request for qualifications last week. The agency hopes to have construction finished two years after it signs a contract with a developer.

    That developer will have to contend with a number of challenges. Anything built on the site must pass muster with the Federal Aviation Administration, so the hotel's height will be limited. And the TWA terminal is both a New York City landmark and listed on the National Register of Historic Places, meaning alterations to the original structure must be minimal.

    "Clearly drawing inspiration from, but then also not clouding the Saarinen terminal is going to be a key part of our evaluation of the proposals," Mr. Ward said.

    The terminal is a darling of preservationists, who have urged the Port Authority to find a way to reuse the property.

    "I think [the hotel proposal] definitely has potential—and it would still be part of the airport, which is very important," said Alex Herrera, director of technical services at the New York Landmarks Conservancy. "I think it'll be tricky to fit modern hotel use in there—they'll have to go more toward the European concept of a hotel in an old castle."

    The market for hotels in New York, while still down far from its 2008 peak, has begun to recover faster than other types of real estate because of a rebound in tourism. The Port Authority is also in negotiations with a potential tenant for the much larger former Ramada Plaza hotel at JFK's edge.

    Mr. Ward sees the new hotel as catering to business travelers and others in the city for a short period of time who might otherwise stay at fashionable luxury hotels in Manhattan. The cavernous original building, meanwhile, would also be open to travelers for dining and shopping. They'd be attracted, he hopes, by the building's considerable cultural cachet.
    "There are few buildings designed for airports that have resonated with the public as much as this one," said Frank Sanchis, a senior advisor at the Municipal Art Society of New York. "To have that in New York as part of our major airport for New York City is a tremendous gift."

  6. #51


    I remember walking through the old terminal as a kid.

  7. #52
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Oct 2002


    Trump Checks if Terminal Will Fly as Hotel

    Starwood, Balazs Also Visit JFK Site


    Donald Trump's last big New York project was a gleaming tower in the heart of SoHo. His next could be wedged between two terminals at John F. Kennedy International Airport.

    A Trump company was among those that have visited the empty Eero Saarinen-designed TWA Flight Center that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is trying to turn into the centerpiece of a boutique hotel.

    A mix of hotel-industry players, ranging from luxury developer Andre Balazs to European pod-hotel builder Yotel, have looked at the soaring space over the last month, according to a lists of attendees participating in recent site visits. Starwood Hotels & Resorts Inc., which owns brands including Sheraton and W, also visited the site.

    Just because a company visited the terminal doesn't mean it will submit a proposal to develop it. But the list of attendees does suggest that there's strong interest in the Port Authority's proposal from the hotel industry.

    Any developer on the site will have to deal with a thicket of red tape. Space for new construction is limited to a small area between the Saarinen terminal and a JetBlue Airways terminal. The building, which opened in 1962, is a city landmark and is on the National Register of Historic Places.

    The Federal Aviation Administration gets final say over the building's height. And the Port Authority wants to recoup the $20 million it has spent on restoring the terminal.

    Some of those considering the project have dealt with such hurdles before.

    One visitor, WQB Architecture PLLC, worked on the renovation of the landmarked Lambs Club building on West 44th Street, turning it into a luxury hotel and restaurant. WQB also has done work for boutique hotel developers Kimpton Hotel & Restaurant Group Inc., according to WQB's website.

    Yotel, meanwhile, has opened three of its hotels at airports in London and Amsterdam. It rents small, pod-like rooms that it has wedged into Heathrow, Gatwick and Schiphol airports.

    Others, such as Messrs. Trump and Balazs, have spent their careers developing luxury properties.

    An airport hotel would be a significant departure for both men, but either would add significant star power to the Port Authority's effort.

    Representatives for Messrs. Trump and Balazs declined to comment on whether they would submit bids.

    "Please know that it is too early to determine whether Mr. Trump is interested or not," a spokeswoman for the real-estate mogul said in an email.

  8. #53


    How does this work as a hotel without some fairly massive restructuring?

  9. #54
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    Isn't there lots of subsurface luggage infrastructure between the old terminal and the new (where they say the hotel will go)?

    Anything built too close to Saarinen's wings will ruin the sculptural quality of the building. This is not a good idea.

  10. #55


    ^ A handsomely-detailed Corbusian slab might be just the trick. You could use either the Swiss or Brazilian pavilions as massing templates (Cite Universitaire, Paris).

  11. #56


    Ugh, that picture reminds me of what a disgrace it was to build that 'ikea' disguised as an airport terminal next to that gem. What a POS. I thought JetBlue had higher standards, but I was wrong.

    The piecemeal development of JFK is an overall mess and it was a horrible decision to build an airport like this. What lack of vision and poor planning it was. Why didn't they just do something simple and easy - two or three large terminals.

    It seems like this is another example of cutting of your nose to spite your face regarding unwillingness to invest in the future. Will they ever learn?
    Last edited by futurecity; February 26th, 2011 at 01:57 PM.

  12. #57
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2003
    New Jersey


    Quote Originally Posted by futurecity View Post
    Ugh, that picture reminds me of what a disgrace it was to build that 'ikea' disguised as an airport terminal next to that gem. What a POS. I thought JetBlue had higher standards, but I was wrong.

    The piecemeal development of JFK is an overall mess and it was a horrible decision to build an airport like this. What lack of vision and poor planning it was. Why didn't they just do something simple and easy - two or three large terminals.

    It seems like this is another example of cutting of your nose to spite your face regarding unwillingness to invest in the future. Will they ever learn?
    Funny you should mention that, the Port Authority in the mid '90s was planning on doing just that. The Port Authority had a massive JFK redevelopment plan called JFK 2000, it entailed rebuilding the Central terminal area into one or two large central terminals with several airside concourses connected via people moves to the main terminals. Think Orlando or Tampa airports, they even started building the underground infrastructure which was later abandonded. They built underground tunnels that were to have automated systems for transporting bags between the terminals and the airside aircraft. The Dailynews did an article about the "tunnels to no where".

    The plan also included a rail line that would have followed the current JFK Airtrain route around the terminals and to Jamaica Station, however the rail line would not have stopped there. It would have continued on to the East Side of Manhattan via the outer portions of the Queensborough bridge where the roadway would have been replaced with the rail line.

    What killed the project is when the projected price tag reached about $15 Billion, and this was around 1993-1995. At that time the Port Authority decided to take a piece meal approach and to attract private investment, it started with the Private group that redeveloped Terminal One in 1997 and later another group which rebuilt Terminal 4. The Port Authority also decided to piece meal the Airtrain, what is currently operating is supposed to be the initial operating segment, with a later extension to Manhattan (possibly LGA too). The main hurdles to completing the rail line are technology (how to integrate the Airtrain with either the LIRR or NYCTA), and of course price.

  13. #58


    That was a good plan and what a mistake it was to abandon it. They keep on making messes for themselves. You get what you pay for. Invest in cheap solutions, you reap the problems down the line.

    I believe the old rail line that was to be used is now a no-go due to residents, correct? Another missed opportunity. The rail line should have been kept in operation to keep the option of an airport link open.

    The lack of proper funding for getting things done properly in this city/country will be the its downfall. Priorities will have to shift to infrastructure investment if we ever want to remain competitive with overseas markets. Sooner or later it will start to impact the bottom line. Without real investment into NYC's infrastructure, newer cities in this country will be growing at NY's expense. Piecemeal approach has led to many shortsighted decisions and has caused us major problems today that may not be easy to recover from (think lack of options to expand airports, keeping no open land available for expansion, lack of HSR, poor configuration of JFK, etc). London has no problem investing billions on major projects to keep their city competitive. If NY doesn't keep up, investors will start looking elsewhere.
    Last edited by futurecity; February 27th, 2011 at 01:49 PM.

  14. #59


    The Port Authority wants to invest $15 billion to expand and upgrade the area airports.

  15. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Washington, DC


    Futirecity, your reference to Ikea set me to recall what those ostensibly design-conscious Swedes did to Marcel Breuer's fine New Haven building for Armstrong Tire: they turned it into total schlock.

    If Trump is involved in any aspect of reusing the TWA terminal, I am decidedly un-optimistic about its fate. Suffice it to say the Donald has lousy taste, but I'll leave it at that because he is also a litigious jerk.

    As for Pei's plans for a central receiving terminal with a subway station underneath and connections to the airline terminals by radiating people movers, you can check it out at the Pei firm's website. It's a nice design (Paul Goldberger compared it the work of Sir John Soane) but after beginning preliminary work, the PA decided it was impracticable given the considerable cost.
    Last edited by ttk; February 27th, 2011 at 04:04 PM.

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