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Thread: Potential new large tower in Midtown (Roosevelt Hotel Site)

  1. #136

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    The Roosevelt Hotel's lobby is really lovely -- something from another era. But the owners of the hotel don't seem interested in renovating the rest of the hotel, I am guessing because it will be a tear-down at some point. (I have had friends stay there and the rooms are crap.) Ultimately, its location is just too valuable for there to be anything on the site other than a giant glass rectangle. The LPC could save it, but as the LPC email writer above points out, the agency has far more important "priorities", such as saving the escalators at 510 Fifth Avenue. What an incredible loss to the City's architectural heritage that would have been.

  2. #137
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    It is amazing how all the callous, philistine developers always seem to gravitate towards the most beautiful treasures in this city with the sole intent of razing them. Aren't there enough crappy sites around for them to build on?

  3. #138

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    Interesting article about some of the building's architectural features.
    http://hdc.org/hdc-across-nyc/manhat...velt-hotel-web

  4. #139

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    Midtown East buildings at risk. Includes the Roosevelt Hotel.
    http://www.nylandmarks.org/advocacy/...oric_buildings

  5. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC View Post
    Ultimately, its location is just too valuable for there to be anything on the site other than a giant glass rectangle.
    I agree this is the most likely result - and this makes me sick. However, I don't understand the logic behind your statement. Why does a valuable location mean we are damned to a miserable, mind-numbingly dull glass box? Wouldn't one think that a highly valuable location would (should) merit higher, not lower, investment in architecture? That a developer is effectively guaranteed high-paying tenants when building in prime real estate, and the more "trophy-like" the building the more likely he is to both lure the most attractive tenants and to be able to get a premium out of them?

    Don't the least-valuable locations merit the more poorly designed/constructed buildings, not the most-valuable ones?

  6. #141
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    You didn't get the sarcasm?

  7. #142

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    That's "new money" for you.

  8. #143
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    Money doesn't buy good taste that's for sure.

  9. #144
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    I think we are strongly handicapping the general public's appreciation of architecture while severely discounting how generally pleasant glass boxes are to actually have to live and work in. They have great views, are really bright, and are reasonably easy to make attractive from the inside even as they age. The same cannot, generally, be said of storied prewar architecture, as nice as we make it out to be.

  10. #145
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    There's a whole thread somewhere here about the Roosevelt being demolished. I think it goes back to before the bubble burst etc.

  11. #146
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    Lord knows there are plenty of all-glass options out there for anyone who prefers to live in a fishbowl. As for offices, there are less and less non-glass buildings everyday as they either get converted (or in this dumbass city, demolished to make way for yup you got it, more glass boxes!) so that is a non-issue.

    At some point, if not already, glass office buildings will outnumber the non-glass ones so that is hardly a problem.

    And I think we are overestimating the demand or love that are out there for glass. Maybe in many developer's minds they think glass is the latest and greatest but many prewars (and new non-glass buildings like 15 CPW) get some of the highest prices in the city.

    I'm sure most people wouldn't pick living in a glass tower in Dallas over a prewar in Paris.
    Last edited by antinimby; February 18th, 2014 at 09:30 PM.

  12. #147
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    Well two things. One, it'd probably be an office, and there is near limitless demand for glassy offices. Developers aren't building stuff they can't make money on, and masonry heavy office buildings are out. Two, it's all about location. Sure one would prefer a prewar in Paris to a glass tower in Dallas, but what about a glass tower in Paris. Amazing. Anyway, 15CPW certainly has high prices, and is clearly desirable, but so are TWC, and One57, and 432Park. And they're all quite glassy. Also, even though it is not all glass, even 15CPW is mostly glass, and the living spaces are particularly glassy.

  13. #148
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    Limitless demand for glass offices? Tell that to Silverstein, he'd love to hear about that. Anyway, isn't it silly for you to argue for glass office buildings since that is all you'll be getting anyway? It's like you preaching to the choir (who in this case, are developers).

    My argument instead rests with residentials. I am not convinced there is such a love affair with all-glass as you might think. 15 CPW may or may not be mostly glass (who's going to actually measure every square inch of facade surface?) but importantly, it is NOT ALL-GLASS.

  14. #149
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    Well, again, it's about location. There's no limitless demand for anything downtown. Downtown is just not great for office space. Anyway, I am on the fence about whether there is huge demand for all glass in residentials. I think at the high end, where heating/cooling/window treatmenting the things, the demand is actually just fine. On the other hand, all glass is a HUGE pain in the middle and low end, and where I don't think there is as much of it there, and why when it is built, it's not as popular. When, in this case marginal, owners/renters are hit with the expenses of an all glass building, the tension is great. Think the whole 110thirdworld fiasco a number of years ago. It's almost like the added challenges of owning sports cars. They're a tough row to hoe for any but the most well healed purchasers.

  15. #150

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    You're crossing the commercial and residential markets. There's a 98.678% chance that when the Roosevelt site gets redeveloped, it will be commercial. Who knows, maybe there'll be some hotel element included in the site. But I REALLY doubt that they'd build residential in that location.

    Masonry wall construction is now more expensive than glass wall. Masonry is also heavier, so it creates a need for a heavier, and therefor more expensive structure. For something like 15 CPW, where they're selling the building (and for tippy top dollar), they can use it as a selling point. Commercial renters don't care. They want as flashy as possible, with the best views possable, at the lowest rent possible. The cost savings with glass curtain wall construction gives the landlord more margin to play with. No one actually involved in the transaction cares what the curtain wall is made of, other than how it effects cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Lord knows there are plenty of all-glass options out there for anyone who prefers to live in a fishbowl. As for offices, there are less and less non-glass buildings everyday as they either get converted (or in this dumbass city, demolished to make way for yup you got it, more glass boxes!) so that is a non-issue.

    At some point, if not already, glass office buildings will outnumber the non-glass ones so that is hardly a problem.

    And I think we are overestimating the demand or love that are out there for glass. Maybe in many developer's minds they think glass is the latest and greatest but many prewars (and new non-glass buildings like 15 CPW) get some of the highest prices in the city.

    I'm sure most people wouldn't pick living in a glass tower in Dallas over a prewar in Paris.

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