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Thread: Potential new large tower in Midtown (Roosevelt Hotel Site)

  1. #46

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    ^
    Thoughtful response and entirely expected given its source.

  2. #47
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    It's the only response that kind of post deserves.

  3. #48

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    Let's be careful to refrain from personal insults.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    Finally, Chicago doesn't have even a tenth of the historic streetscape of Manhattan. Most new buildings are built on one of the many surface parking lots.
    It sure is cool that Chicago doesn't want to protect its landmark buildings.

    There are preservationists in Chicago - or should we just give them the blanket name NIMBY.

    http://lynnbecker.com/repeat/farwell/farwell.htm

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    I'm not sure I understand. The vast majority of future office space will be in Midtown. Hudson Yards alone will have a tremendous amount of space. How can you judge before we've even seen renderings?
    Can't say much for the Con Ed site. And as developers will knock down famous buildings in more central locations to build 30 story boxes in midtown, the need for more office space in locations that need development, such as the hudson yards, lessons, and these grand plans might be scaled down or dissappear along with the famous art deco buildings. I see two big losses-- the famous art deco buildings in midtown, and the scaling down or elimination of great new buildings in locations that need development. Two birds killed with one stone.
    Last edited by Scraperfannyc; July 11th, 2007 at 07:58 PM.

  6. #51

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    I think this city has to take a deep breath and acknowledge that midtown is out of space. Developers should start developing Queens waterfront, Uptown, Brooklyn. At least more aggressively than now. Manhattan should be preserved with more zeal than it is done now. All these news about old hotels being tore down -- makes me feel like the whole city will be one giant office of glass. NO soul, no signature, no history. Sorry, but we should be more inclined to-wards style and design than simply height.

  7. #52
    The Dude Abides
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    I have a feeling, although I could be wrong, that Sheldon Silver has an interest in making sure Downtown keeps its wonderful old buildings and builds the tallest and most splendid buildings at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    And as developers will knock down famous buildings in more central locations to build 30 story boxes in midtown, the need for more office space in locations that need development, such as the hudson yards, lessons, and these grand plans might be scaled down or dissappear along with the famous art deco buildings. I see two big losses-- the famous art deco buildings in midtown, and the scaling down or elimination of great new buildings in locations that need development. Two birds killed with one stone.
    What the hell are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
    I think this city has to take a deep breath and acknowledge that midtown is out of space. Developers should start developing Queens waterfront, Uptown, Brooklyn. At least more aggressively than now. Manhattan should be preserved with more zeal than it is done now. All these news about old hotels being tore down -- makes me feel like the whole city will be one giant office of glass. NO soul, no signature, no history. Sorry, but we should be more inclined to-wards style and design than simply height.
    This preservation business is getting to people's heads and is creating a collective sense of chaos on this forum. I echo most of what ASchwarz said: I cannot recall ever seeing as much anti-development sentiment here, or to as fierce an extent, as has come about over the past month or so.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    This preservation business is getting to people's heads and is creating a collective sense of chaos on this forum. I echo most of what ASchwarz said: I cannot recall ever seeing as much anti-development sentiment here, or to as fierce an extent, as has come about over the past month or so.
    I agree with you to a large extent. The Roosevelt Hotel adds to the streetscape but does nothing for the skyline. Its architecture is rather unremarkable. Before I pass judgment I’m going to hold out to see what might replace it. If it’s a glass box than I’ll be upset to see it go, it’s not the Drake, so I won’t be infuriated, I’ll just be rather disappointed. If the replacement is architecturally significant, it doesn’t even have to be tall, than it’ll be a worthy replacement. New York City is defined by progress and progress is defined by growth and change, I support progressive development and architecture; that is new developments that are far greater than what it is replacing. Case in point Time Warner Center replacing the Coliseum and case in point of a detrimental project is the Drake; a 30 storey glass box replacing an architectural gem is not what NYC is all about. A landmark should replace a landmark. Time will tell how I feel about the development at the Roosevelt Hotel but the Roosevelt Hotel is not landmark worthy and I’m optimistic that perhaps a landmark building will replace it.

  9. #54
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    Honestly, I don't think it even adds to the streetscape at all. I walk by it fairly often in the mornings on the way to work, and it's a dark, foreboding streetwall, with some very unremarkable retail. I've actually been looking forward to hearing news about this hotel's potential demolition.

  10. #55

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    The problem with my theory is that it is very idealistic and many times you don’t know if the new development will be “progressive” or not until it is already approved and the existing building is already demolished. Just as important as the Landmarks Commission New York needs an Architectural Review Board that could balance such concerns, I don’t see why countless nothing towns and cities have Architectural Review Boards and New York City doesn’t, especially considering that almost everything else about New York City development is socialistic anyway, its ashame that perhaps the most important aspect, the design, isn't.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    Honestly, I don't think it even adds to the streetscape at all. I walk by it fairly often in the mornings on the way to work, and it's a dark, foreboding streetwall, with some very unremarkable retail. I've actually been looking forward to hearing news about this hotel's potential demolition.
    What I like about the Roosevelt Hotel is that the brick provides a nice contrast to all the glass. But now that I think about it, Vanderbilt Avenue and the base are rather dark and dreary. If the brick was cleaned it might alleviate the base's foreboding presence, but whose to say that whatever replaces it cant be an architectural statement with a brick construction, again we need an Architectural Review Board to make such suggestions.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    Chicago today is building taller than in Midtown Manhattan. They have been having less issues with replacing well built buildings with short fat boxes. Chicago seems to find the right spots to build to begin with. The same is true with downtown NYC. Downtown NYC development impresses me, but midtown development depresses me.
    A couple of things; Chicago developed differently from the start, land was cheap and parcels were large enabling enormous loft and warehouse construction, it was defined by horizontal development, when property values appreciated it was easy to demolish existing brownfield properties and erect large buildings. New York City has strict zoning, a FAR hovering around 10-20, so unless you assemble a gigantic site and include a large low-rise or plaza feature or assemble an insane amount of neighboring air-rights you are going to have difficulty pushing 50 storeys. Most developments involve air-rights because New York developed differently, the grid ensured that parcels wouldn’t be too large and when they did naturally develop they were developed with small buildings, walk-ups, tenements, and brownstones, making it difficult to acquire large parcels. Lastly I have to nitpick, Chicago has had more than its fare share of architectural losses, and downtown development is not all that rosy, sure you have Beekman and the WTC and 50 West Street, but you have a lot of McSams and a lot of other new buildings like 2 Gold Street.

  13. #58
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    There are many office development sites, but they all have substantial older buildings that will need to be demolished or extensively altered.
    The various little isolated taxpayers and the like are not appropriate for office space, because modern office towers need big floorplates. Those little taxpayers will likely see hotel or residential construction, but not office space.
    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    I'm not sure I understand. The vast majority of future office space will be in Midtown. Hudson Yards alone will have a tremendous amount of space.
    The contradiction of the month folks . If we are getting all of this office space in Hudson Yards why the HELL do we have to eliminate the historical texture of NYC?!?!

  14. #59

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    I agree with Piano, Stern, & ASchwarz. It's not a great building, it just provides a nice contrast to all the glass. Like Hotel Penn, my opinion on its demolition is dependent on what replaces it. I'm inclined to bet that a 1.5 msf tower will be much more of a landmark than what sits there now.

    Rather than trying to save everything old for fear of what may replace it, we need to devote ourselves to getting better buildings. Remember, this and Hotel Penn demolished lots of older buildings for their own constructions.






    Just being big goes a long way in this city. The Bear Stearns Building is not nearly as finely crafted as the hotel but is a more notable building. Would anyone support demolishing Bear Stearns for the Roosevelt? If only there was some way of guaranteeing greater replacements.
    Last edited by Derek2k3; July 12th, 2007 at 12:24 AM.

  15. #60
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    Is there any place where those air rights from the hotel can be transferred to instead?

    This way the hotel can be saved while another, otherwise stumpy tower can grow taller, making it a win-win situation for the city.

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