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Thread: Potential new large tower in Midtown (Roosevelt Hotel Site)

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
    The contradiction of the month folks . If we are getting all of this office space in Hudson Yards why the HELL do we have to eliminate the historical texture of NYC?!?!
    Midtown East isn't Hudson Yards, and Hudson Yards will serve an entirely different market. Hedge funds and Private Equity firms are in Midtown East.

  2. #62

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    City planners should be encouraging development throughout the City, and not just sandwiching in a few more glaxss boxes withing walking distance of GC. This whole business is very short-sighted. If the City pushed a little more aggressively to rebuild Penn Station, it would all of a sudden find itself with a new transit hub with developable sites all around.

  3. #63
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post

    Would anyone support demolishing Bear Stearns for the Roosevelt?
    What does such a (ridiculous) hypothetical question ^^^ have to do with anything that is being dicussed?

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    This preservation business is getting to people's heads and is creating a collective sense of chaos on this forum. I echo most of what ASchwarz said: I cannot recall ever seeing as much anti-development sentiment here, or to as fierce an extent, as has come about over the past month or so.
    Thanks for clearing everyone's head.

    Maybe what you call chaos is a sense that Manhattan is slowly giving up, not only its old buildings, but its development opportunities, replaced by disappointing banality that will transform it, not into a new Manhattan, but a new Anycity.

    Maybe what you call development, we call chaos. In another thread, ASchwarz expressed support for Sam Chang and his personal architect. I find it strange, not only that these buildings are going up, but that they are going up now. What will historians conclude when they try to figure out why we got this "style" during an upswing in the city's fortunes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    Just being big goes a long way in this city.... If only there was some way of guaranteeing greater replacements.
    The solution would be easy if the city was interested in setting minimal standards, but it isn't. Some developers do it on their own, but they are in the minority.

  5. #65

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    ^ So the problem is Bloomberg and Burden?

  6. #66

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    ^
    You'd have to add the City Council.

    I know it's not quite as simple as this, but the real estate market is a good barometer.

    If we were having this debate in the 70s, it would be ridiculous for the city to make these demands on developers.

  7. #67
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post

    Recently, Wired New York seems less of an architectural and development forum, and increasingly just another NIMBY powwow.
    IF that ^^^ were true (which I don't believe it is) blame can be laid to the fact that we find ourselves in mid-July -- and little of any great import is divulged development-wise from now through Labor Day.

    Instead, the citizens of NYC recently have been presented with the overbearing design for 5WTC, Sam Chang's latest abomination, the destruction of the Drake Hotel and the impending doom of what many deem to be a Landmark-worthy building. Not to mention other rather depressing events (very well chronicled by LondonLawyer ).

    Not much to sing about there.

    Screaming and complaining does seem to be the more appropriate response. Letter writing, too -- although in most cases the horse is already out of the barn.

    Meanwhile many here are singing the praises of Piano's Times Tower, cheering construction next door at 11 TS Plaza, and celebrating the topping out of the B of A Tower & 1 York.

    All in all things at wny seem pretty balanced to me.

    I guess it all depends upon how one sees it.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    This preservation business is getting to people's heads and is creating a collective sense of chaos on this forum. I echo most of what ASchwarz said: I cannot recall ever seeing as much anti-development sentiment here, or to as fierce an extent, as has come about over the past month or so.
    One can certainly be pro-preservation and pro-development. I usually tend to side with the pro-development crowd, but i know that this is because I am having a backlash to ny's preservationists's tendencies to reject everything. In general I think hotels like the Roosevelt and the Drake ought to be preserved, but incorporated into new structures that rise above them alla porter house or hearst. I also think on sites of little or no note, so such as on stretched of lexington avenue or 90% of midtown west, then adventurous architecture and vertigo inducing height should be encouraged.

    But let's not turn this into a knee-jerk pro-development v. preservationist debate... again, one can certainly be both.

  9. #69

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    There are people on this forum that believe that any development must be the best. The majority here do not think that way. This is like saying any new restaurant replacement in NYC must be good. However, replacing Katz's Deli or a 5 star botique restaurant with a giant McDonalds when this McDonalds could have just as easily replaced one of the many dunken donuts in the city may not be such a good thing. Or replacing the 2nd Avenue Deli with a Bank does not bring smiles to most people. Not much to cheer about, but there are those who will believe that anything new is progress.

    Taking away a good thing is never a good start when there are so many other better options.
    Last edited by Scraperfannyc; July 12th, 2007 at 01:42 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraperfannyc View Post
    There are people on this forum that believe that any development must be the best. The majority here do not think that way...
    Very interesting statements. Sorry I missed the voting for forum spokesperson. Was Scraperfannyc the only nominee?

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider View Post
    Very interesting statements. Sorry I missed the voting for forum spokesperson. Was Scraperfannyc the only nominee?
    There was a pole on another thread dealing with the Penn Hotel. I think the results were something like 60:40 favoring preserving the hotel which would make the developers build the office space on one of the kazillion duane reades or 5 story tenements, etc., etc., etc.

    The response you gave is typical of one in denial, lack of knowledge or a sore looser and not one of fact based opinion. There is plenty of that to go around, but I think intellegent opinions based on fact are much more interesting.
    Last edited by Scraperfannyc; July 12th, 2007 at 03:13 PM.

  12. #72
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  13. #73

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    This hotel, contrary to my opinion of the Penn, should be saved. It has fine detailing, massing and workmanship. It is a fine and relatively pristine example of the style. Allow the transfer of its air rights and scrub it clean.


  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    ^ So the problem is Bloomberg and Burden?
    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    ^
    You'd have to add the City Council.
    I know it's not quite as simple as this, but the real estate market is a good barometer.
    If we were having this debate in the 70s, it would be ridiculous for the city to make these demands on developers.
    I don't understand how any of these people are responsible for what's going on lately with these hotels.



    Quote Originally Posted by elfgam View Post
    One can certainly be pro-preservation and pro-development. I usually tend to side with the pro-development crowd, but i know that this is because I am having a backlash to ny's preservationists's tendencies to reject everything. In general I think hotels like the Roosevelt and the Drake ought to be preserved, but incorporated into new structures that rise above them alla porter house or hearst. I also think on sites of little or no note, so such as on stretched of lexington avenue or 90% of midtown west, then adventurous architecture and vertigo inducing height should be encouraged.
    But let's not turn this into a knee-jerk pro-development v. preservationist debate... again, one can certainly be both.
    Your position sounds a lot like mine.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik View Post
    This hotel, contrary to my opinion of the Penn, should be saved.
    I agree but why hasn't it?

    On one hand, you've got some dubious structures all over the city that gets landmarked while many grander ones aren't.

  15. #75

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    On one hand, you've got some dubious structures all over the city that gets landmarked while many grander ones aren't. [/quote]

    it is very possible that people who decide what to preserve are influenced by the Major or big business. So something that does not look good for prospective development - gets on the protected list. While real gems get the wrecking ball due to their high value, location, footprint and potential for future development.

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