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Thread: Javits Center Expansion (& Cancelled Jets Stadium)

  1. #2296
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Flying in the face of convention


    By LOIS WEISS
    December 4, 2005

    The planned expansion of the Jacob Javits Convention Center is expected to add conventions, hotel rooms and service businesses to the West Side.

    Earlier this year Richard Rogers Partnership with FXFowle Architects and A. Epstein and Sons International were selected to create blueprints and a design to continue the Javits Center northward.

    The expansion of the Javits Center will increase exhibit and meeting room space from approximately 790,000 square feet to more than approximately 1.3 million square feet in the first phase and 1.5 million feet in the second phase, enabling it to host most conventions and trade shows.

    The new addition is expected to add an estimated $53 million in combined annual tax revenue for the city and state to the $97 million it already provides, along with creating thousands of permanent jobs.

    Consultants and politicians have long agreed that Javits needed to at least double in size to keep up with competition from Orlando, Las Vegas, New Orleans and Chicago.

    But even as the new plans are underway, there is a sense that it may be too little.

    Additionally, Gov. George Pataki’s vision and plans for a 1,500 room convention center hotel to be built on 42nd St. have been long thwarted as property owner, Larry Silverstein moves along with plans for a residential tower, rather than such a hotel which typically needs subsidies because of the amount of necessary public and meeting spaces.

    The first phase of the expansion will go south one block to 33rd St. and north to 40th St. where an MTA bus garage stands in the way.

    This will now include a 1,500-room headquarters hotel, which would be constructed most likely on a different site between 33rd and 34th Streets.

    This hotel would have the largest ballroom in the city, capable of holding 6,000 people.


    Private financing of $200 million will help to finance the convention center hotel.

    “We need a hotel in the proximity of the Javits to make the expansion successful,” said Cristyne L. Nicholas, President and Chief Executive Officer of NYC & Company which is the city’s tourism arm.

    But Nicholas does not believe a hotel on 42nd St. would have needed subsidies because it would have been the beneficiary of transient business during the few off weeks when Javits isn’t booked for out-of-town conventions.

    Such hotels provide meeting space, which Nicholas calls “a key factor” in the growth of the convention business.

    “The bottom line is what New York City needs to keep up with the demand is a convention type hotel with appropriate ballroom and

    meeting spaces,” she said.

    Indeed, as other cities have steadily increased their hotels and exhibition areas with an eye on overnight tourism, the Javits expansion remained caught between competing city and state interests.

    For a long time, the Giuliani administration remained fixated on building to the south on Metropolitan Transportation Authority land — which would have required an expensive platform to be built over the train yards.

    Most recently, a continuation of these plans became the centerpiece of the city’s Olympic bid, whereby a Sports & Exhibition Center, perfect for the largest convention meetings of 20,000 to 80,000 people, would double as a Jets stadium.

    It would have also have had more exhibition space on a lower level.

    Cablevision, the competing owners of Madison Square Garden, fought the plan and spent millions of dollars funding opposition.

    While the MTA finally agreed to sell the Jets the land, the entire scheme tanked when the Olympic Bid went to London — and some believe the lack of enthusiasm to construct the stadium swayed the world’s judges.

    But now, at least, the northern expansion is on track with Tishman Construction Corporation overseeing the work.

    Phase 1 is expected to cost $1.4 billion, and be funded through several sources.

    The city will contribute $350 million and that state will match that with certain credits as well as the restructuring of existing Javits Center bonds.

    An additional $500 million is to be raised through a bond sale backed by a dedicated $1.50 per key per night surcharge that the hotel industry agreed to collect.

    The Phase II expansion will bring the Javits to 1.5 million square feet.

    The architecture team is now creating a Master Plan for the entire expansion as well as a new Concept Design and overall image that is expected to be revealed by the first quarter of the year.

    John Livingston, President of Tishman Construction Corp. which is acting as the owner’s representative and the construction manager said the design team is trying to combine many ideas into a plan that works and remains within the budget.

    “There is a desire to expand and to renovate and maximize the funds that we have,” said Livingston. “We want to be accurate. And not create an expectation that is not affordable.”

    The team is looking at reskinning the primarily glass Javits Center with more technologically advanced and energy efficent materials while retaining its transparency.

    “Sustainability is an important issue for us,” Livingston noted, pointing to FXFowle’s expertise in environmentally sustainable “green” design.

    Other wish-list items include airport style people movers, pre-event or cocktail party space on a roofdeck, and an underground tunnel from Javits to a convention hotel on state controlled land on 33rd St. that might also host an underground garage.

    “You want to go in and feel comfortable, with good signage and light, and have it be flexible and really user-friendly,” Livingston said.


    Copyright 2003 NYP Holdings, Inc.

  2. #2297
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The planned expansion of the Jacob Javits Convention Center...

    Earlier this year Richard Rogers Partnership with FXFowle Architects and A. Epstein and Sons International were selected to create blueprints and a design ...

    The architecture team is now creating a Master Plan for the entire expansion as well as a new Concept Design and overall image that is expected to be revealed by the first quarter of the year.

    ... The team is looking at reskinning the primarily glass Javits Center with more technologically advanced and energy efficent materials while retaining its transparency...

    Other wish-list items include airport style people movers, pre-event or cocktail party space on a roofdeck...
    This could be an exciting addition...

    Javits as is: very 80s

  3. #2298

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    The Javits Center is politically sacrosanct, I understand that, but I wonder whether the city would be better off without it. Are there alternative uses for the land that would generate higher economic returns?

    From an architectural standpoint it's a disaster. It's also a hulking presence that cuts off the waterfront from the rest of Manhattan. I hate the thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    This could be an exciting addition...

    Javits as is: very 80s

  4. #2299
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    That area is to be a business district, the loss of the waterfront for about 12 blocks, from 30th to 42 is not that big of a deal, as long as Hudson river Park is completed thru Clinton and Chelsea, the two residential areas to the North and South of this district

  5. #2300

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    I still don't like the fact that the streets are blocked off, and I suspect the main purpose of the Javits Center is to be a source of patronage.

    Quote Originally Posted by kliq6
    That area is to be a business district, the loss of the waterfront for about 12 blocks, from 30th to 42 is not that big of a deal, as long as Hudson river Park is completed thru Clinton and Chelsea, the two residential areas to the North and South of this district

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    Quote Originally Posted by vc10
    I still don't like the fact that the streets are blocked off, and I suspect the main purpose of the Javits Center is to be a source of patronage.
    This is the only real location for the thing. Sure, you could move it out to Queens or Staten Island and knock the current one down, but would the draw be the same? I'm not sure. It's only a small percentage of the waterfront, it's not the end of the world.

  7. #2302

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    That still leaves the question, is a convention center the best economic use of so much real estate? I haven't seen anything that addresses that.

    Quote Originally Posted by billyblancoNYC
    This is the only real location for the thing. Sure, you could move it out to Queens or Staten Island and knock the current one down, but would the draw be the same? I'm not sure. It's only a small percentage of the waterfront, it's not the end of the world.

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    More convention sapce will make NY able to book many of the larger shows that it couldnt with the lack of size at Javits. it will also help book shows that they have been turning away, which from what i hear is great, going forward. More convetions mean more people and more use of Hotels and could also spur the need for newer hotels in the area near Javits, thus creating construction jobs as wells as permenant jobsin the new hotels as well. Thus, i feel that the extension as is is justified but should not go any further. There is no need to use the Train yards to the south to make Javits bigger and also no need for a hotel to be built by the state as part of the expansion. Let a private developer build the hotel

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    ^ There are plans for two new hotels close to the Javits by developers already...

    one will be built by the Witkoff Group and the other hotel is part of a mixed development by Joseph Moinian.

    I am sure more will come.

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    Thumbs up

    New deal building over railyards


    David Saltonstall and Pete Donohue
    December 6, 2005

    The city and MTA are finalizing a deal to develop a three-block site next to where Mayor Bloomberg once hoped a football stadium would rise.

    The Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the city would pay the cost of building a deck over railyards stretching from 30th to 33rd Sts., between 10th and 11th Aves., MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow said yesterday.

    The location would be used to create three new city blocks for office and residential buildings, plus a 6-acre park, city officials said.

    Kalikow, testifying before an Assembly committee hearing, said the platform would take about 20 months to build.

    Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff, who led the city's failed bid to build a Jets stadium on railyards just west of the site, said the deck would cost about $400 million.

    The MTA chairman said that the sale of development rights would allow the city and state to recoup the costs of building the deck and split any profit - with a majority going to the MTA.

    Assemblyman Richard Brodsky (D-Westchester) questioned the legality of the money split.

    Doctoroff said the city would only recoup its share of the cost of building a deck.


    All contents 2005 Daily News, L.P.

  11. #2306
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    Quote Originally Posted by vc10
    I still don't like the fact that the streets are blocked off...
    No doubt Rodgers et al will address the relationship of Javits to the waterfront.

    His work on another waterfront project: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...postcount=2285

  12. #2307

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    Great. But is the best economic use for that space a convention center or is it something else? And where are the studies that back that up?

    Quote Originally Posted by kliq6
    More convention sapce will make NY able to book many of the larger shows that it couldnt with the lack of size at Javits. it will also help book shows that they have been turning away, which from what i hear is great, going forward. More convetions mean more people and more use of Hotels and could also spur the need for newer hotels in the area near Javits, thus creating construction jobs as wells as permenant jobsin the new hotels as well. Thus, i feel that the extension as is is justified but should not go any further. There is no need to use the Train yards to the south to make Javits bigger and also no need for a hotel to be built by the state as part of the expansion. Let a private developer build the hotel

  13. #2308
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    vc10, I know what you're trying to say: conventions don't bring the largest return in terms of per square foot basis. But let me ask you something. Does every square inch in Manhattan have to be occupied by a financial firm or luxury condominiums? Is that the kind of return and best use of space you're looking for?

    I believe the reason why Manhattan is successful is because there's so much diversity. You've got in addition to investment banks, entertainment, recreation, food, housing, conventions, hotels and so on and so forth. Not everything has to be about the bottom line. Manhattan would be pretty bland under your model.

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    If we wait to do studies to find out if im right or wrong, all convnetions will be in orlando and Las Vegas, javits expansion is going ahead, tishman is managing it and it will increase the space by atleast 500,000 sf, case closed.

  15. #2310

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    And it will still be a small convention center and not competitive with Orlando and Las Vegas. New York does not compete with these cities, and that's a good thing.

    Again, I don't have any illusions that the Javits Center can be stopped---it's a political thing, jobs for the boys (the convention center employees).

    Quote Originally Posted by kliq6
    If we wait to do studies to find out if im right or wrong, all convnetions will be in orlando and Las Vegas, javits expansion is going ahead, tishman is managing it and it will increase the space by atleast 500,000 sf, case closed.

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