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Thread: Javits Center Expansion (& Cancelled Jets Stadium)

  1. #2371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teno
    This sets current public precedent that anyone can be punished for their political views.
    Yup.

    He was hired to design a building.

  2. #2372

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer
    What about the Palestinians? This isn't the proper thread for this discussion, but I empathize with them. In my opinion, the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is quite simple and should entail:

    ...

    Most Europeans, like Lord Rogers, sympathize with the Palestinians. American politicians don't due to political pandering to Jewish Americans, just like they pander to Cuban-Americans with our idiotic policy toward Cuba, and like they did with Irish-Americans vis-a-vis our recognition of Shin Fein. Moreover, fundamental Christians/Americans in the Bible Belt (which I regard as basically the whole country outside of the Northeast, NW, LA, SF, Chicago and Southeast FL) sympathize with Israel for some reason that I don't understand.

    Palestinians have been treated so unfairly. It's absurd.

    The U.S. has done nothing but add fuel to the fire in the Middle East. We should promote policies that will facilitate the peaceful co-existence of Israel and Palestine.
    I completely agree with your desire for peace between Palestinian's and Israeli's, but IMO your metaphor with the Cuban emigres is misplaced. I believe most european politicians sympathize with the palestinians because of their arab immigrant populations the way US sympathizes with Cuba because of it's immigrant population, not that the US symathizes with Israel because of the number of of jews in this country.

    There really aren't that many jews in this country that they could so significantly sway public opinion. As a % of population and wealth there are more jews in England and France than in US, and both countries are far more critical of israel, and tolerant of things such as the periodic synogogue arson in their own countries. This is mostly because they both have far larger, wealthier and more active arab populations. They're also more afraid of internal strife with these populations, it's handier to leave it directed against jews.

    Also Europeans attempt to secure oil access to middle east by being very tolerant and sympathetic to mid-east concerns, as opposed to US which bullies them around. Which way is better is debatable (IMO, get off oil and get out of the region, no good can come of anything there). Europe and US have this good cop/bad cop thing going over there.

    Lastly, (and still IMO) Richard Roger's beliefs really have nothing to do with all this. I think politicians have the right (free speech) to call him to terms with his political decisions, but he has every right to make them. Either way, i think he is guilty only of joining a 'cause celebre' in Europe right now (Israel-bashing). I don't think he has that much of an issue with Israel, but currently its seems that the fashion among famous intellectuals in Europe (and US, actually) right now is identifying with the Palestinian plight and demonzing israel as the cause of it. Some people do this for their own reasons, which I can respect, other's just tag along... i think this is RR's case.

  3. #2373

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    Neither side is perfect, as there has been plenty of badness to go around. But one side went to the negotiating table and signed an agreement committing it to resolve the conflict without violence. The other side denies its opponents' right to exist, and is committed to using violence of the ugliest, most unustifiable sort (e.g., bombs in public buses, restaurants, etc.). While an argument could be made in favor of neutrality between the two sides of the conflict, to boycott the Israeli side alone really makes me question "Lord" Rogers' sense of right versus wrong. That being said, the man was paid to design a building, not to bring about world peace, and he should be allowed to do his job. We are not tearing down all the Philip Johnson buildings just because the man was an unabashed NAZI sympathizer. As for the issues about Rogers' design, those are really separate, and should be resolved free of political questions.

  4. #2374
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    One thing that cannot be forgotten here is that this Rodgers was hired to work on the "Jacob Javits" convention center, so inevitably issues of Israel, Zionism, Palestine, etc. enter the picture in a way that they do not at another building site.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Javits
    Javits was, for a time, the only Jew in the U.S. Senate. (He was despised by Southern senators, namely James O. Eastland, who told him, "I don't like you - or your kind.")
    From a NY Daily News Editorial ( http://www.nydailynews.com/news/idea...p-335873c.html ) :
    End Lord Rogers' designs on Javits

    ...when word reached New York and Rogers faced losing the Javits Center commission, the lord began wavering like a badly designed skyscraper. First, his spokesman told the New York Sun that Rogers hadn't yet supported the boycott, but "it's something he could not rule out in the future." Then, on Wednesday, Rogers said, "In view of the published aims of Architects and Planners for Justice in Palestine, and particularly in view of the suggested boycott by some members, I am dissociating myself from the organization."

    Rogers' statement is galling in two regards. First, it implies he was a distant participant in a group he helped form. Second, it's anything but a forthright repudiation of plans to boycott Israel. He has now made such a declaration both to the Empire State Development Corp., the agency charged with revamping the Javits Center, and to the Daily News. "I abhor boycotts of any kind against Israel or any other place," he said in a new statement late yesterday.

    Based on such an assurance, Empire State Chairman Charles Gargano says he is satisfied Rogers is fit to design the Javits Center. Gargano is wrong.

    Rogers' newly professed revulsion toward boycotting Israel is both convenient and disingenuous. Allowing him a role in the construction of a monumental public facility named after Jacob Javits, a staunch supporter of Israel who represented New York in the Senate for a quarter-century, would be a travesty.
    Javtis' Congressional bio: http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts...?index=J000064

  5. #2375
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    The tone of that Daily News editorial is pathetic.I have never read an article in that rag that fairly addressed anything even remotely connected to Israel.

    Typical of them: front page news about the latest suicide bombing in Israel, while neglecting to mention the Palestinians bombed the day before.

    Elfgam's comments, which minimize the political clout of Jews in the US, are not borne out by facts. Groups like AIPAC are very powerful, as are the media moguls who push a distorted perception(here in the U.S.) of the whole issue.

  6. #2376

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy
    The tone of that Daily News editorial is pathetic.I have never read an article in that rag that fairly addressed anything even remotely connected to Israel.

    Typical of them: front page news about the latest suicide bombing in Israel, while neglecting to mention the Palestinians bombed the day before.

    Elfgam's comments, which minimize the political clout of Jews in the US, are not borne out by facts. Groups like AIPAC are very powerful, as are the media moguls who push a distorted perception(here in the U.S.) of the whole issue.
    Did you see that our psycho vice-president, DICK cheney, addressed AIPAC last week and focused on Iran? The US' foreign policy in the Middle East is utterly biased and incompetent.

  7. #2377
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Flame you.

  8. #2378

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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1
    keep your dumbass politics to yourself or prepare to be FLAMED
    This is a polite board. No one made any rude comments.

  9. #2379

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    ny sun

    Lawmakers Give Architect Rogers Go-Ahead on Javits Project

    By BRADLEY HOPE
    March 10, 2006

    After state politicians yesterday said they were satisfied Richard Rogers had no solid links to an anti-Israel group in London, the architect is set to get back to work on plans to make improvements to the Jacob K. Javits Center.

    Lord Rogers last month allowed a group called Architects and Planners for Justice in Palestine, which has said it favors a boycott of Israel because of the construction of a security fence between Israel and the Palestinian territories, to use space at his office. Lord Rogers said he never had any knowledge of the group's anti-Israel policies when he welcomed it into his office.

    Over the last week, the Assembly speaker, Sheldon Silver, Rep. Anthony Weiner, and several Jewish groups have had meetings with Lord Rogers to clarify his relationship with the group, culminating with a lengthy summit yesterday morning. Several groups, including the Anti-Defamation League and the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations, said they were satisfied with Lord Rogers's explanation earlier in the week, and the New York politicians were appeased yesterday.

    "I accept Mr. Rogers's explanation for his involvement with the group," Mr. Silver said. "I am also withdrawing my opposition to letting him be the lead architect" on the Javits project.

    The head of the Empire State Development Corporation, Charles Gargano, said in a statement that he was gratified with the development.

    "I spoke with Lord Rogers a short time ago and told him, 'Now it's time to get back to work.'"

    Lord Rogers said he allowed the group, which was then called Architects and Planners for Justice in Israel and Palestine, to use his office on one occasion. He said he gave "abstract" opening remarks about helping rebuild devastated areas before leaving for another meeting after 10 minutes. In the following days he underwent surgery and missed the press coverage of the group while he was recovering in the hospital. News reports at the time mentioned the boycott.

    Calling the Palestinian territories a "terror state," he said he has always been an ardent supporter of Israel.

    "I have always been a strong believer in that state," Lord Rogers said at a press conference. He admitted he had made a mistake in not following the early press reports of the group and not taking a stronger public stand against its support of a boycott right away.

    The preliminary $1.7 billion plans to improve the Javits Center, which is named after a Republican senator who was a strong campaigner for Israel, include doubling the exhibition space and adding paths lined with trees. A special flat tax of $1.50 is being levied at hotels across the city to finance the project.

  10. #2380

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    NY politics is such a joke. It's B.S. that Rogers basically had to give a bj to Silver, et al to keep this commission. Palestinians are not terrorists. By the way, it's funny how people forget that when what's now Israel was under British rule, Israelis, including former Prime Minister Begin, carried out terrorist attacks through the terrorist group, Irgun. Is one an anti-Semite for having sympathy with the Palestinians' plight? I think not.

  11. #2381
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    You're so right.
    The "terrorist" Zionist group Irgun, for example, blew up the King David Hotel in 1946 killing 91 people in what they called "the tragic and noble war of Hebrew liberation."
    The hypocrisy of modern Israel is mond-boggling.
    I'm glad Rogers keeps his commission, but sad at the hoops he had to jump through.

  12. #2382

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    Curbed
    March 30, 2006

    Javits Center Expansion—in Excrutiating Detail!

    by Lockhart



    Pumped for the forthcoming Javits Center expansion? If so, you'll want to be the first in your office to download the 53MB Master Plan PDF from architect Richard Rogers and friends that's now available to the public. Feeling a bit nutty, we threw bandwidth to the wind and snagged a copy ourselves. (The site also has a 2.5MB Quicktime video, if that's more your speed.) In a word: javtacular!

    Select images from the Master Plan document after the jump, including a very special peek at Manhattan's very own Stonehenge.







    Copyright © 2006 Curbed

  13. #2383
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    "Stonehenge" -- har de har

    It's just another forlorn NYC "plaza" that has been allowed to go derelict ...

    PITIFUL (both the original design and the failure to maintain it).

  14. #2384
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    Perhaps they should have considered one of Spinal-Tap size:


  15. #2385

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    Does anyone know if this was Rogers original idea for the Javitz? Or if budget scaled any grandiose ideas down to what we have now?

    I ask because his London projects are much better.

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