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Thread: Javits Center Expansion (& Cancelled Jets Stadium)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    The Nation's Capitol (DC)

    Default Javits Center Expansion (& Cancelled Jets Stadium)

    I just read the NY Times article on the proposed redevelopment of the Javits Center and creating a new Park Avenue-type boulevard. *Does anyone have any pictures of what they want this to look like or a link to the official website? *If so, thanks a lot!

  2. #2

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

  3. #3

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    This could be the next exciting thing that propels New York forward. *I can't wait to see how the new developments will enhance the skyline as viewed from NJ.

  4. #4

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    Hell's Kitchen Online * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 2/10/03 "All the News the Times Won't Print"
    ================================================== ==========

    1. Show up at the CP Hearing Tonight at 6 PM at the Javits
    2. Grand Vision for Remaking the West Side Javits Center (Times)

    ================================================== ==========

    It's an opportunity for all 150 West Siders (according to Bloomberg) to
    show up and give the Bloomberg - Doctoroff - City Planning vision of
    West Side a thoroughly loud Bronx Cheer. There may be some snow, but
    never stopped Hell's Kitchen before. We'll try to have some signs for
    people to hold up (or make your own). From what we've heard, there will
    a presentation of the plan for about an hour and then the public (you)
    an opportunity to comment or testify.

    "On February 10th the Department of City Planning (DCP) and the
    Development Corporation (EDC) are holding a public meeting where they
    release the latest draft of the their “comprehensive plan for the
    Yards area of Midtown” (an area they define as 42nd Street to 24th
    primarily west of 8th Avenue to the Hudson River)."

    WHAT: *Dept. of City Planning Hearing on the Hudson Yard Development
    WHEN: *February 10th at 6:00 P.M.
    WHERE: Jacob Javits Convention Center, Hall 1E

    "The meeting on February 10th will provide an opportunity for DCP and
    to present the preferred direction for the [Hudson Yards] project. A
    presentation of the Urban Design Master Plan is also anticipated in the
    Spring of 2003. These two public presentations will provide
    to comment on the plan prior to the public scoping session for the
    Metropolitan Transportation Authority/DCP environmental impact
    (EIS) that will be undertaken for this project."

    More info from the City Planning website at

    ================================================== ==========
    by Charles V. Bagli
    NY Times
    February 10, 2001

    Where some people see the far West Side of Manhattan as a low-slung
    district of tenements, small shops, warehouses and parking lots, the
    Bloomberg administration envisions a neighborhood transformed.

    Tonight at the Jacob Javits Convention Center, city officials plan to
    publicly unveil an ambitious proposal to redevelop the area between
    Avenue and the Hudson River, from 28th Street to 42nd Street.

    The plan, which would require billions of dollars in public investment,
    calls for a $1.5 billion subway extension, new office towers along 11th
    Avenue, opposite a greatly expanded convention center, and a commercial
    corridor stretching from Madison Square Garden on Seventh Avenue west
    the Hudson River, between 30th and 34th Streets. A new boulevard with a
    tree-filled center median — similar to Park Avenue — would be built
    10th and 11th Avenues and run from 38th to 34th Street to help ease
    congestion between office skyscrapers to the west and new apartment
    buildings to the east.

    There would be a waterfront esplanade, ferry terminals at 38th and 34th
    Streets, hotels and residential buildings along 10th Avenue and small
    throughout the district, which now has few such amenities.

    Some elements, like a $1.2 billion stadium over the West Side rail
    have already generated resistance from local residents, business
    and politicians.

    But the deputy mayor for economic development, Daniel L. Doctoroff,
    that the transformation of the West Side over the next several decades
    critical to the city's future growth. If companies that are pressed for
    space in other areas of the city cannot expand when the economy
    he said, their jobs will go to the suburbs in New Jersey and
    Many proposed public investments would also provide the foundation for
    Doctoroff's bid to bring the 2012 Summer Olympics to New York, though
    says the plans are not dependent on New York's being chosen as the site
    the Games.

    "The West Side presents the best opportunity for the city to invest in
    future and grow," Mr. Doctoroff said in an interview. "Our highest
    is to create jobs for people, to develop businesses and to provide
    for people to live. There has not been a time in the city's history
    relatively virgin areas did not grow and develop after the extension of
    mass transit and public investments. This is the best return on our
    investment we can get."

    Development in the area has been hobbled, he said, by outdated
    manufacturing zoning and a lack of public transportation. To catalyze
    vast development envisioned, the Bloomberg administration would
    the zoning and together with the state extend the No. 7 subway line
    Times Square to 34th Street, where plans call for the establishment of
    transit hub that would link the Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North and
    subways and would be several blocks west of Pennsylvania Station.

    Plans also call for a $1 billion public investment to double the size
    the convention center, to approximately 1.6 million square feet, by
    expanding it northward and linking it to the new stadium to the south,
    the rail yards.

    The planned Farley post office project would provide the link between
    current site of Madison Square Garden and the stadium, which is
    for a massive deck that would be built over the rail yards.

    These projects, city officials said, would spur the private development
    roughly 28 million square feet of office towers and thousands of

    "This is an area where the public sector can make an investment," Mr.
    Doctoroff said, "and have it returned many times with new jobs and new
    businesses that generate an enormous amount of tax revenue."

    The administration likens the potential effect of its proposal to how
    construction of Grand Central Terminal in the late 1800's on a one-time
    rail yard and the sale of development rights over the tracks heading
    sparked the development of the city's premier business district, along
    Madison, Park and Lexington Avenues.

    But critics have questioned whether the city even needs a stadium and
    another business district, as well as how much commercial development
    a district would generate.

    Because the proposal is subject to the city's land-use review process
    approval by the City Council, and because state assistance would be
    to expand the convention center and extend the subway line, the
    administration is waging an intensive campaign for official and public
    support as it also faces huge budget deficits and a recession.

    City officials have been meeting privately with hotel and real estate
    executives, and officials from the hotel construction and restaurant
    unions, in an effort to sell what the city is calling the Hudson Yards
    Master Plan, to evoke the image of change coming to the rail yards
    than the entire neighborhood. And the word stadium has been banished in
    favor of "multi-use facility."

    Not everyone is impressed.

    "They've gone through a bunch of euphemisms," said Simone Sindin, the
    chairwoman of Community Board 4, which covers the West Side. "They've
    instructed to drop the word stadium from their lips. I call it the
    900-pound gorilla in the room."

    The stadium, which would be built as an Olympic stadium and a home for
    New York Jets football team, is the lightning rod for opposition to the
    plan, be it from local residents fearing the destruction of
    housing in favor of tall towers, or Broadway theater operators who are
    worried that further traffic congestion will discourage patrons from
    to Times Square.

    One opponent, State Senator Thomas K. Duane, has called for a "movement
    like the one that stopped Westway," a reference to a successful 10-year
    campaign against a $4 billion federal landfill and highway project
    the Hudson River from the Battery to 59th Street. And John Fisher, a
    founder of the Clinton Special District Coalition, has organized a Web
    for the opposition,

    Ms. Sindin complimented the City Planning Department for meeting with
    community leaders and incorporating some of their recommendations. But
    has not been won over.

    "One of the positives I see is that they're planning for a great swath
    green to run southwest across the district," she said. "They've also
    housing on the side streets between Ninth and 10th Avenues. But they're
    still married to the esplanade of skyscrapers along 11th Avenue. What
    not impress me is the stadium. It doesn't belong here."

    A business executive who is active in civic affairs and generally
    the West Side planning effort also questioned the wisdom of building a
    stadium there. "We should be planning for future growth in an orderly
    manner so that when the time for expansion comes we're not caught
    flat-footed," said the executive, who spoke only on the condition of
    anonymity because he often deals with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg. "But
    think the stadium would be better elsewhere, like in Queens."

    While the Jets have told the city they would be willing to finance much
    the cost of a domed stadium, which could replace Madison Square Garden,
    taxpayers would still have to pay for the $250 million deck on which
    stadium would be built.

    Jonathan Bowles, research director of the Center for an Urban Future, a
    nonprofit urban planning group, says he doubts that the billions of
    worth of infrastructure projects will spark the 30 million square feet
    commercial development the Bloomberg administration foresees over the
    30 years.

    "Their plans look great, with all the parks and esplanades," Mr. Bowles
    said. "But this is about office development. Economists see very little
    growth in the financial industry. If Wall Street isn't going to grow,
    there be enough jobs created in the service sector?"

    Mr. Doctoroff said the city's projections are based on a study of the
    historic growth of office buildings, hotels, retail and housing in the
    by Cushman & Wakefield, a real estate firm, and Economics Research
    Associates, a consulting firm. He said that based on very conservative
    assumptions, the city estimates that from about 2010 through 2040 New
    will need an additional one million square feet of commercial space and
    roughly 400 apartments each year on the West Side.

    The city's plan estimates that the stadium would be completed in 2009
    the convention center in 2010, which alarms the hotel industry because
    is far in the future.

    "The industry is still focused on the Javits expansion as something
    could be started almost immediately," said Jonathan M. Tisch, chairman
    Loews Hotels and the city's convention and visitors bureau. "It might
    a couple of years to build, but it would send a message to booking
    that New York City is serious."

    Mr. Doctoroff has long said that the public investments would be
    by the sale of development rights and new tax revenues from rising real
    estate values within the district, a phenomenon known as tax increment
    financing, or TIF. The redevelopment area would be the largest
    TIF district in the country, but state officials have expressed some
    about the marketing of bonds based on revenues expected from taxes
    based on
    increased property values. In any event, such revenues would not cover
    $1 billion cost of expanding the convention center.

    City and state officials have talked to hotel and tourism-related
    industries about a dedicated tax, say $1 per hotel per night, that
    finance the center and a marketing budget. Mr. Doctoroff said the city
    still revising its financial plan, which will be completed in six to

    "The assumption remains that we'll finance this through incremental tax
    revenues generated as a result of our investment in infrastructure,"
    Doctoroff said.

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  5. #5

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    I hope the NIMBY's are quiet on this. *This proposal benefits everyone, inlcluding the residents. *

  6. #6
    Senior Member DougGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    LA, formerly NY

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    I hate to play devil's advocate, because I love the idea of this huge vitalization project, but there's two things nagging at me: 1. I can't think of any city where the convention center is the heart of a huge office building complex, much less residential complex. Why would a giant Javits draw new construction around it, except for maybe hotels? And 2. Isn't NYC facing massive budget short-falls? AND trying to deal with a crushing debt? Where's the money coming from for all of these multi-billion-dollar projects?

  7. #7

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    The project is dependent on the extension of the 7 train to the area. *It will all make sense when that happens. *I am skeptical, however, that the stadium will do any good in that location. *We've all seen what wonders MSG did for commercial and residential properties in the neighborhood in the thirty years since it was built. *It's wonderful to see such a concentration of 70-to-100 year old buildings, but I doubt that the developers of MSG had that in mind in 1965.

    Major cities need stadiums and arenas, but they do nothing for a neighborhood. *

    (Edited by dbhstockton at 6:27 pm on Feb. 10, 2003)

  8. #8

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    I don't think the stadium should be on the West Side. The Jets fans are mostly from Long Island, so the new stadium for them should be ON Long Island, and last I checked, there's a great site for it right next to Shea. Maybe Woody Johnson will take some of his billions and chip in for it!

    The West Side is gonna be developed, like it or not. I'm sure people who lived on 6th Ave in the 1950's were against the towers moving west. Now look at it - the IND line under it got expanded to 4 tracks and was connected to the Manny B via Chrystie Street in 1968. There went the neighboorhood!

    Same thing for Times Square, minus the transit improvement. Things change, cities grow and property values go up. The Far West Side has open lots and could get great transit access with a few plans implemented. 42nd St had a bunch of apartment towers put up in the 90's, with the bus terminal right near it. Wait until New York Times and Farley are finished. In 30 years, we'll look at the West Side like 6th Ave. and wonder how tenements and low-rise buildings were ever on it.

  9. #9

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    A football only stadium in Manhattan is not a good idea. Most of the time, it sits idle. But a multiuse stadium deserves consideration. Move the Knicks and Rangers from MSG, use as expanded convention space, and other entertainment/cultural events would make it a year-round facility.

    I agree it would be better sited in Flushing Meadows, but the city must attract investment.

    DCP report in PDF (large file):

  10. #10
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Garden City, LI

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    I think if it's not on the Wesy Side, Queens would be great, but it will be a great facility that gets a lot of use if it's for the Jets, Knicks, Rangers, concerts, conventions, etc. *

    Plus, as I've said before, if it's done right, it will be a great place to go out, a la Wrigleyville in Chicago.

  11. #11
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Manhattan - South Village

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    Quote: from dbhstockton on 6:24 pm on Feb. 10, 2003
    Major cities need stadiums and arenas, but they do nothing for a neighborhood.
    That is absolutely not true. When I lived in Denver the construction of Coors Field completely revitalized that neighborhood and all of their downtown, you wouldn't believe the change. Camden Yards did the same thing for the Balitimore inner harbor. These sites were in abandoned industrial neighborhoods not far from their CBD. The businesses rolled in. They turned out to be quite walkable neighborhoods, and mass transit is largely used to get there. In fact, all across the country planners are finding that arenas and stadiums being built close to the heart of the city not only revitalizes the neighborhood but also attendance goes up.

    And what's so bad about the neighborhood around Madison Square Garden? I think it's in much better shape than it was 30 years ago. Certainly it's better than the neighborhood around the site of the proposed stadium. People eat and drink in the neighborhood before and after every Knick game, Ranger game, and concert.

    Putting the stadium in Long Island would be a waste for the city, there already is Shea Stadium over there, poorly situated among all the highways and in no neighborhood. The City of New York needs a state of the art, multi-use, world class facility, and it needs to be in Manhattan, where people will GO to it and feel like they are in New York when they are there.

    (Edited by NYatKNIGHT at 12:42 pm on Feb. 11, 2003)

  12. #12

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    It's also important to note what the proposed stadium would be replacing. *In the case of MSG, it replaced Penn Station, an architectural masterpiece. *The proposal would supplant what? *Tenements, empty lots, and train tracks. *How could the surrounding properties possibly go down in value?

  13. #13
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
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    Garden City, LI

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    The whole arguement is pure NIMBY madness. *Really, since it's in the city most poeple will NOT DRIVE, they'll take the train, etc. *Especially if the area is laced with bars and restaurants.

    It's just so frustrating to see people protest everything, especially if it's good for everyone, including them.

    Show me a city where the new stadium ruined the area.

  14. #14

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    What I was trying to say about stadiums and arenas is that they are not a path to commercial and residential real estate developments. *They may be good for a city, and create thriving tourists areas with the accompanied hotel and retail development, but they can't be sold as the centerpiece of a new business district. *Especially football stadiums. *

    I'm not saying MSG ruined the area, I'm saying that there was precious little commercial and residential development in the thirty years after it was built. *We've got One Penn Plaza and the residential high-rise that went up recently on 34th between 8th and 9th. *The rest of the neighborhood around MSG looks almost exactly the same as it did the day before Penn Station was demolished.

  15. #15
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    Manhattan - South Village

    Default Javits Center / West Side Redevelopment

    You're right, the stadium can't be the centerpiece for the West Side. The whole area needs a good well-rounded plan, and I think it is. They certainly aren't relying on the stadium.

    But an all-purpose stadium located next to an expanded Javits Center is a huge plus, and would jump start the redevelopment with new businesses settling around the stadium. Not only will convention goers access the neighborhood, but residents and tourists too.

    A stadium located there is accessible to the entire metro area (there are plenty of Jet fans in Manhattan and New Jersey too). There would be excellent river and rail access. Like other urban stadiums, provide little parking nearby and the surrounding neighborhoods won't get inundated with traffic. Located right on the Hudson River, it is much more high profile than tucked away off some outer borough highway. Constructed over a rail yard, it takes no demolition. It's a dream location for a stadium. Think about some day being IN that stadium with river and skyscraper views all around and Manhattan at your beck and call before and after the event. One of the country's premier stadiums, it would bring more than just 8 Jet games a year. And I'm a GIANTS FAN!

    First things first - extend the 7 train.

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