New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

[antinimby]

"This is probably the most important transportation hub in the country — there ought to be a federal contribution to it," the president of the Regional Plan Association, Robert Yaro, said.

I totally agree.

The damn Federal government thinks nothing of throwing tens of billions into that worthless Big Dig underground highway tunnel in Boston.

600 million is just a drop in the bucket compared to that so they've got no excuse to not help with the Penn Station project, which by the way, is exactly what they should be condoning and supporting the development of because it is mass transit.

[scumonkey]

I also agree it should get federal moneys However.....

worthless Big Dig underground highway tunnel in Boston.

Nothing worthless about that project!

[antinimby]

Well it is worthless in the sense that there wasn't any utmost urgency in the need to move those roadways underground.

Is it better for the Boston neighborhoods that they went underground? Yes but then that could be said for any arterial in any downtown area of most cities.

Is it that urgent? No, and certainly not $16 BILLION (or however much more the end cost had ballooned to) urgent.

[scumonkey]

I can agree the cost ballooned to outrageous proportions BUT.....
Having lived in Boston I can tell you it WAS needed!
And it was alot more than just some downtown arterial
Have you ever tried driving there?

[antinimby]

You don't seem to get it. Like I said, every city's highway system is a mess and everyone can reasonably claim that roadway improvement is needed but are they all urgently needed?

I don't see how the Big Dig is any more urgent than say, the BQE-Gowanus in Brooklyn or the highway exchanges in Jersey City or any number of aging highways across the country.

If we're going to throw $16 billion to bury highways running through every city, then how much money are we talking about here and is that money well spent?

[scumonkey]

I'm not going to quibble with you.....
IMO
Bostons was a unique problem that no other American city could claim..
Read and learn - it was hurting more than Boston
(where a lot of the trains that enter NYC come from)
http://www.masspike.com/bigdig/background/index.html
I will NOT change my mind and stand firm by my beliefs...
and YES...I DO GET IT!
Now back to the original topic

[antinimby]

Every city's problem is unique but that doesn't mean we should waste $16 billion of taxpayer's money at a so called problem that wasn't even that urgent.

I'd say that bridge in Minneapolis was more urgent and should've gotten a piece of the funding that had gone to the Big Dig, which is really just a makeover.

[kz1000ps]

I won't argue with you that the federal money should have probably gone elsewhere, but to say that the Big Dig was "just a makeover" is simply wrong.

The old elevated highway was designed before federal standards were in place, back in a time when it was assumed that the more on- and off-ramps you had the better, regardless of what curves in the alignment existed (think the old West Side Highway, except not quite so antiquated). It was (relatively) unsafe, and needed at the very least a drastic redesign to get it anywhere near modern safety standards, let alone getting it up to a level where it could handle today's traffic demands.

But yeah.. $15 billion and counting

[antinimby]

Well, I would certainly expect that at least some safety improvements would be made if you're going to spend $15 billion.

I'm sorry but that isn't enough justification because I'm sure every city can make the same claim about roadway safety and I'm sure some might even be in poorer conditions than Boston but I don't see the Feds handing out $15 billion to everyone.

Lastly, was there no other way to address those safety concerns in Boston other than through this ultra expensive route?

[Xemu]

Maybe when New York gets a Tip O'Neil of it's own they'll be able to wrangle $15 Billion in federal funding for Penn Station. Until then I wouldn't count on it.

[antinimby]

Lol, so true. By the way, $15 billion would get us half-a-dozen new Penn Stations.

[Eugenious]

The bastards have lost their minds, its not enough that they are porking the city for $2b+ they want federal funding too. What a bunch of crooks, all to cash in on their land and property deals. These projects are hi-jacked by special interests and have very little merit at this point. It's obvious the train station is taking a back seat to getting these guys the carte blanch to do as they please with the area and air rights..

[kliq6]

This wont get going till 2009 so no need to talk about it

[antinimby]

The bastards have lost their minds, its not enough that they are porking the city for $2b+ they want federal funding too. What a bunch of crooks, all to cash in on their land and property deals. These projects are hi-jacked by special interests and have very little merit at this point. It's obvious the train station is taking a back seat to getting these guys the carte blanch to do as they please with the area and air rights..

Oh god. I think I will stay quite clear of this one.

[Eugenious]

This wont get going till 2009 so no need to talk about it

You are way too optimistic I say 2015