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Thread: New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

  1. #1966

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    They should renovate the Macys store then gutt the inside of it and put a Nordstrom in it. (Wishful Thinking)

  2. #1967
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    A new(-ish) sign has gone up on Eighth Avenue below W. 33rd Street ...



    farley

  3. #1968
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    Miracle on 32nd Street

    Editorial

    NY TIMES
    December 28, 2007

    After more than a decade of dreaming, it may still take a miracle to build a new Pennsylvania Station in New York City. The odds would increase if Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s development team presented their proposal to the public as soon as possible. Then everyone — especially the people who use the station — could push to make this much-needed project happen.

    Pennsylvania Station is now the busiest rail station in the country. It also ranks among the dreariest public facilities anywhere. Members of a group called Friends of Moynihan Station recently went there to distribute sketches of plans to rebuild the station and name it for the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. It was like handing out a flagon of holiday cheer to downtrodden commuters who had no idea there was a possibility for something better.

    To get the public involved, Governor Spitzer’s development team, led by Patrick Foye, will have to unveil their plans for the project, as long promised. Once details are aired, commuters and others should make sure that this private-public partnership gives the public its due. One worry is that the James A. Farley Post Office building — the site for part of the new station and a grand example of Beaux-Arts architecture — is properly preserved when Madison Square Garden also moves inside.

    In recent days, some of the planners have hinted at another possibility. They talked about transplanting Macy’s into the section of the new Moynihan station that would be east of Eighth Avenue. At this point, this move seems like another complication for a project that is already about as complex as public works can get. For one thing, the old Macy’s building has national landmark status and needs to be protected. Also, moving Macy’s to 32nd Street raises new questions about whether that part of the Moynihan complex would become more shopping mall than railroad station.

    There are still many threads that need to be woven together. Right now, there are important negotiations going on about how to pay for the project, and whether the state, city and developers are contributing enough to pull in the necessary federal funds. If such negotiations must continue behind doors, that still does not mean the state and the developers can delay letting the public see detailed plans and proposals. Veteran commuters deserve some hope that the new Moynihan complex is not just another urban fantasy.

    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

  4. #1969
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    Came upon these sickening before and after images:

    Old Penn




    New Penn

  5. #1970
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    ^^ Was this caused by a death-ray too?

  6. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
    ^^ Was this caused by a death-ray too?
    no it was caused by a controlled demolition

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  8. #1973
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    Gee, they really know how to draw a crowd.

  9. #1974
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    Question

    Hmmm, if NJ transit is thinking of having their new tunnel terminating below Macys and Macys is thinking of relocating or moving part of their 34th st location to Moynihan, would it be better to have the the basement and 1st floor or 2 gutted and renovated as a train station to itself? NJT was thinking of eventually extending this same tunnel to Grand central terminal, so would it also make sense to have this 3rd (macy's) station as a west side terminal for Metro north??? Moynihan/Penn would Serve Amtrak, Lirr and NJT; Macy's would serve NJT and Metro north; Grand central would serve Metro north, Lirr and NJT.

  10. #1975
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    Plus, such a deal ^ would solve any branding problem for the new train hub ...

    Macy's Station


  11. #1976
    Senior Member Dynamicdezzy's Avatar
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    I apologize as always for a terrible drawing, but it serves its purpose.





    This image shows the connections at the 3 Station/Terminals, with "Macy's Station" (Very Nice Lofter) serving as the newly formed terminal-Station for NJ Transit and Metro North.

    Metro North can access this station via the Empire Connection, Sunnyside yards and/or tunnel extension from GCT.

  12. #1977
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    The NJ Transit Tunnel is not going under Macy's, it's going under 34th street. And there are plans now for an extension to Grand Central, that could be visited in the future.

  13. #1978

    Default Confetti: The Last Straw

    January 7, 2008
    Political Memo


    Seth Wenig/Associated Press

    Knicks fans at Madison Square Garden last month. The Garden has been exempt from city property taxes since 1982.

    A Tax Scare at the Garden, Among Other Worries

    By RAY RIVERA

    These are not halcyon days for Madison Square Garden. The Knicks are rapidly affirming their place as the most uninspired team in basketball. Their coach, Isiah Thomas, is greeted nightly by a chorus of boos.

    And back-to-back sexual harassment lawsuits, one played out in sordid detail in a Manhattan courtroom before ending in an $11.5 million judgment, have made the once-proud arena, which owns the Knicks, and its chairman, James L. Dolan, easy targets for the tabloids — and for City Hall.

    For the third time in five years, the City Council is considering a resolution calling on the State Legislature to end the Koch-era exemptions that, since 1982, have freed the arena from paying city property taxes, estimated at $11 million to $12 million a year.

    City Council members pushed identical resolutions in 2003 and 2005. But without the support of the Council’s speaker at the time, Gifford Miller, neither came to a vote. Things are different this year.

    The Knicks, Mr. Thomas and Mr. Dolan are at a nadir in popularity. The city’s budget writers are forecasting a downturn in the economy. And more important, the tax-exemption proposal, for the first time, has the support of the city’s top two officials: Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Mr. Miller’s successor as speaker, Christine C. Quinn.

    The Council’s Finance Committee will hold its first hearing on the new resolution on Monday. But some council members have already made their feelings clear. At a full Council meeting last month, two members prominently displayed “Fire Isiah!” signs on the front panels of their desks. They might as well have read, “End the giveaway.”

    “I just think clearly the Garden has lost its direction,” said Councilman Leroy G. Comrie Jr., a Democrat from Queens, and one of the two council members who posted the signs. “Management is not connected to the needs of the city anymore.”

    The resolution, if it passes the full Council, would have to be followed by legislation in Albany, where Cablevision, the politically savvy owner of the Garden, has had a powerful ally in the past in the Assembly’s speaker, Sheldon Silver. In 2005, Mr. Silver helped Cablevision quash Mr. Bloomberg’s plan to build a stadium for the New York Jets on the West Side that the Garden viewed as potential competition. Mr. Silver’s former chief of staff Patricia Lynch is among the high-powered lobbyists Cablevision has hired to stop the new resolution.

    Mr. Silver’s office declined to comment on the tax-exemption issue until the City Council’s resolution is put before him.

    Although council members say they would never tie their tax fight to the Knicks’ performance on the court — the team’s 8-24 record is the third worst in the National Basketball Association — the Garden’s battered corporate reputation has not helped its cause.

    In addition to the sexual harassment suits — one by a former Knicks executive that led to the $11.5 million judgment, and another by an ex-cheerleader for the New York Rangers who settled out of court — The Daily News recently hammered the arena for charging the city $110,000, including $4,000 for confetti, to hold the police academy’s graduation ceremonies. (Garden officials say that the services were provided at cost and that they made no profit.)

    “I’m not going to be so flippant as to say that the fact the Knicks have absolutely stunk up the basketball court is a reason to get rid of their tax exemption,” said Councilman Lewis A. Fidler, one of the proposal’s sponsors. “But I think certainly the manner in which they’ve conducted their business otherwise has certainly left people feeling less than warm and fuzzy for them.”

    He added, “It has perhaps created an environment in which people are willing to pile on.”

    The Garden negotiated its current tax deal when the city’s morale was in the depths. Crime was high. The 1970s fiscal crisis was fresh on the public’s mind. And the Garden, then a subsidiary of the Gulf and Western Corporation, was threatening to move the Knicks and the Rangers, the National Hockey League franchise that it also owns, out of the city to escape high tax, labor and energy costs.

    Edward I. Koch, who was mayor at the time, said he believed that the exemptions would end after 10 years. Instead, the State Legislature, which granted the exemptions, kept the breaks in place for as long as the Knicks and the Rangers continued to play their home games at the Garden.

    Mr. Koch has long since said the exemptions should end.

    “I doubt the teams would leave now,” Mr. Koch said, “even without the tax breaks.”

    The Garden’s officials are trying to compare their deal with those recently granted to the Yankees and the Mets for their new stadiums and to the New Jersey Nets for an arena that will bring the team to Brooklyn. Those publicly owned venues, built by the teams or developers and leased back to them, will not be subject to property taxes either. Instead, the city will get annual payments in lieu of taxes, but that money will be used to pay off the tax-free bonds that are financing the projects instead of going into the general fund.

    According to figures that the Garden plans to present at the Council hearing on Monday, the Yankees, Mets and Nets deals amount to nearly $1.4 billion in government subsidies over 40 years, including $230 million in property tax exemptions. Those numbers are drawn from estimates made by the city’s Independent Budget Office, and do not include subsidies for a Metro-North station and parking garages to be built at the new Yankee Stadium, which is scheduled to open in 2009.

    Officials at the Garden say they have reached out to the mayor for support and plan more discussions with him. In a statement, the Garden singled out Ms. Quinn.

    “With a more than $50 billion city annual operating budget, it is strange that Speaker Quinn would focus on M.S.G.’s abatement, which pales in comparison to the more than a billion dollars in benefits recently granted to all other pro sports teams in New York City,” Barry Watkins, a Garden spokesman, said.
    Ms. Quinn said the Garden was disingenuous to compare its deals with those of the other teams.

    The Garden’s “tax break was given back in the 1980s to keep the teams from leaving, not as part of an expansion” or new construction, Ms. Quinn said.
    Ms. Quinn and Mr. Fidler said they did not want to be unfair to the Garden, which is considering building a new arena across Eighth Avenue from the current arena site. If that happens, they said, the Garden would be welcome to negotiate new incentives.

    But, Ms. Quinn said, after more than two decades, “we have more than appropriately compensated them for staying in the city.”

    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
    Last edited by ManhattanKnight; January 7th, 2008 at 08:51 AM.

  14. #1979

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    Ms. Quinn said the Garden was disingenuous to compare its deals with those of the other teams.

    The Garden’s “tax break was given back in the 1980s to keep the teams from leaving, not as part of an expansion” or new construction, Ms. Quinn said.
    But she doesn't say why those deals were given to the other teams, if not to keep them from leaving the city. Why was it necessary to fund new construction of private property?

    If there's a new MSG, I wonder how much of the cost we're going to get stuck paying for.

  15. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManhattanKnight / NY Times View Post

    ... the City Council is considering a resolution calling on the State Legislature to end the Koch-era exemptions that, since 1982, have freed the arena from paying city property taxes, estimated at $11 million to $12 million a year ...

    The resolution, if it passes the full Council, would have to be followed by legislation in Albany, where Cablevision, the politically savvy owner of the Garden, has had a powerful ally in the past in the Assembly’s speaker, Sheldon Silver. In 2005, Mr. Silver helped Cablevision quash Mr. Bloomberg’s plan to build a stadium for the New York Jets on the West Side that the Garden viewed as potential competition. Mr. Silver’s former chief of staff Patricia Lynch is among the high-powered lobbyists Cablevision has hired to stop the new resolution.

    Mr. Silver’s office declined to comment on the tax-exemption issue until the City Council’s resolution is put before him ...

    ... Edward I. Koch, who was mayor at the time, said he believed that the exemptions would end after 10 years. Instead, the State Legislature, which granted the exemptions, kept the breaks in place for as long as the Knicks and the Rangers continued to play their home games at the Garden.
    If a bill moves forward to end the exemptions and Silver blocks it then he will have a lot of 'splainin' to do ...

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