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Thread: New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

  1. #2026


    My 2 cents on the rendering:

    - the buildings are placeholders for potential development, Moynihan East is the focus

    - Hotel Penn development seen as separate, so its left out

    - the buildings around Penn Plaza don't accurately depict current plans (there will be no
    skyscraper on the west side)

    - although there is a small hint of the original Penn Station on the 8th Ave facade, overall
    it just looks too blocky, especially with 2 Penn Plaza integrated into the design.

    - I'm not sure what that is on the corner of Farley, but it needs to go. It only gives the
    critics more ammunition.

    - final verdict: for all the money and time going into (and already spent on) this, surely
    they can come up with something better. The proposed JETS stadium was better than this.

    Older Farley rendering

  2. #2027
    Forum Veteran
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    Feb 2003
    New York City


    NY Magazine

    Moynihan Station: All That Doubtful Press Actually a Good Sign

    Negotiation via blind items drives epochal real-estate projects, as well as ballplayers' contract haggling, and we've uncovered reasons to view recent stories about the Moynihan Station struggles as part of an encouraging trend on the project. For one thing, Governor Spitzer has personally entered negotiations. Last week, his spokesman, Errol Cockfield, confirms, Spitz convened his first face-to-face meetings with the Dolans (who own Madison Square Garden) and the developers who own air rights to the intended Moynihan site. One player intimate with the negotiations described this as “shuttle diplomacy,” and apparently it's had an effect.

    “I'm seeing real positive movement — all the players want to make this work," said Bob Yaro, who carries the civic-consensus banner as head of the Regional Plan Association. According to our source on the inside, parties are stalking a grand bargain in which the Feds would drum up $500 to $550 billion, in part via tax credits that the House Ways and Means chairman Charles Rangel would snag, and the city and state and Garden and developers would match that sum. However the players come to terms, it's clear that Spitzer has tied Moynihan's success to his own credibility. “It's among his chief economic-development priorities,” said Cockfield. So the daily screeds about public-private futility, say insiders, constitute a “natural part” of negotiations as private players squeeze the governor to steamroll into the discussions. Now that he has, everyone agrees, the developers gain much more by being patient than they would from pulling the plug. So if the Yankees and Mets are a little dull this summer, we should get lots of Moynihan leaks to keep us alert. —Alec Appelbaum

  3. #2028


    Alex means "million" of course.

  4. #2029


    Good news on the Penn Station negotiations:

    Spitzer Makes Plans to Save Moynihan Station

    By Charles V. Bagli

    Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s rescue plan for the Moynihan Station project may involve having the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey take control of plans from another agency, build a new Pennsylvania Station and transform the surrounding neighborhood with a half-dozen skyscrapers.

    The project, which calls for relocating Madison Square Garden a block away and constructing a grand new train station in Manhattan at 33rd Street, between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, has neared collapse because of shortfalls in government financing, logistical problems and political inertia.

    Over the last week, Governor Spitzer has assured the developers — Steve Roth of Vornado Realty Trust and Stephen M. Ross of Related Companies — and the owners of the Garden that the project will move forward. He told them that the state is willing to increase its contribution to rebuilding Penn Station to as much as $600 million, as long as the city does the same, according to executives who attended a recent meeting on the plan.

    Mr. Spitzer also wants the developers to put up more than the $550 million they have promised, in return for lucrative development rights to build the skyscrapers. But even if they whittle the cost of the train station to $2.4 billion, from the current $3 billion estimate, there is still a substantial shortfall, $650 million.

    That’s where the Port Authority comes in. Proponents, who include the developers, say that Port Authority would bring to bear their expertise with large transportation-oriented projects and a pile of money. Two transportation officials briefed on the proposal said the Port Authority had expressed interest in the project, but the officials requested anonymity because they did not want to get ahead of Governor Spitzer.

    The developers have also come up with a “flip” that they hope would quell criticism from preservationists who complain that the Garden’s proposed arena in the James A. Farley Building, the post office just east of Penn Station, would destroy the historical integrity of the building. Under this concept, the Garden patrons would enter the Farley building through doors at street level, instead of mounting the grand staircase on Eighth Avenue and entering under the colonnade, which would require making changes to the landmark building.

    But the proposal concerning the Port Authority has run into resistance from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, according to state officials and Port Authority executives, because they want the same money for construction of the Second Avenue subway. At the same time, the officials say that Patrick J. Foye, co-chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation, which oversees the Moynihan project, is reluctant to cede control to the Port Authority.

    Assemblyman Richard L. Brodsky, a Democrat from Westchester, said he opposed transferring the project to the Port Authority, which, he said, would be tantamount to allowing the developers to “cherry pick” the agency that gives them the best deal. He said Mr. Foye has pushed the developers to make more concessions.

    It remains to be seen whether the myriad problems can be overcome.
    Tired of the delays, the Garden has continued talking to Mr. Spitzer, while dusting off their fallback plan: to simply renovate the existing drum-shaped arena between Seventh and Eighth Avenues. In 2004, the Dolan family, which controls the Garden, the Knicks and the Rangers, had announced that it wanted to rebuild the arena’s seating bowel, install new luxury suites, add restaurants and widen the arena’s corridors, at a cost of $350 million.

    Under that plan, the Garden has talked to the developers recently about keeping the arena in place, but moving its 5,600-seat WaMu theater from Eighth Avenue to the rear of the Farley building, which would still be converted to an adjunct train station. Advocates say the theater could enliven the Ninth Avenue entrance to the Farley building and would not require many of the structural changes opposed by preservationists

  5. #2030
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    They should relocate MSG to the Hudson Yards instead of the Farley Annex, although I know that Dolan jerk will never agree to it.

    It actually would make a lot of sense because it would:

    1) spare the Farley from additional and unnecessary changes,
    2) more room to build,
    3) provide a much needed attraction and be a big draw for Hudson Yards.

  6. #2031



    Is that right?

    It seems to fit MSG.

  7. #2032
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    New Jersey


    The Port Authority is the only agency that can get all this done, they have the resources and are not subject to the same political bs that the MTA, Empire State Development corp etc are all slaves to.

    It would also boost safety, right now there is a hodge podge of MTA Police, Amtrak Police and National Guard Soldiers. There is some coordination amongst the agencies however they are under the guise of the Amtrak Police which is not the agency that has the adequate resources to be in charge, for one thing the LIRR portion of Penn Station is loaded with MTA police and National Guard soldiers. The only presence in the NJ Transit areas are by Amtrak police (which is limited).

    The Port Authority taking control over Penn Station has the resources to adequately protect the facility, they have one of the best trained and equipped police forces in the Country. They also are sworn police officers in both the State of New York and New Jersey, meaning equal protection for NJ Transit, Amtrak, and LIRR customers.

    The Port Authority police in charge of Penn Station security, coordinating with Amtrak Police, MTA Police, NYPD and National Guard will create a much better and secure enviroment then what currently exists.

  8. #2033


    In its current form this project is a mess . . . Personally I would like to see it go back to its original intent of a government financed project that is developed for and by the people.

    MSG moving to the Farley Building?!?!?! COME ON!!! I can't believe people would even let this idea come out out their mouths. It destroyed the old Penn Station and now we are going to let it do the same to another NYC landmark. Even though it will not involve destroying the facade in effect it still will take away from the building's asthetics as well as its intended purpose.

    Sell the development rights that these companies want for high prices, let them building their towers, and have the government take the money to finance this project with the city's best interest in mind.

  9. #2034


    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDOC View Post

    MSG moving to the Farley Building?!?!?! COME ON!!! I can't believe people would even let this idea come out out their mouths.
    MSG will go to the back annex of Farley, where the loading docks currently sit.

    Something large will go in that back annex. In fact, the developers could build a large tower on that site.

    The MSG relocation, freeing up the original Penn Station site for a new surface-level Penn, seems like a fantastic solution.

  10. #2035


    I agree. This plan makes so much sense, I have to believe it will happen. I also agree that the Port Authority is probably the public agency best equipped to handle this.

  11. #2036


    I might be behind in the discussion here, but why not just use the entire Farley Building for a train station instead of spreading it out on both sides of eighth avenue?

  12. #2037


    "In fact, the developers could build a large tower on that site." - ASchwarz

    Also, not sure if that is the way you meant it, but this statement suggests that the developers have free reign and are doing us a favor. They can't build a large tower on that site if the city/state/federal governments would get their stuff together think creatively and fund this project appropriately.

  13. #2038


    This project is effectively dead, Spitzer has as much clout to make this happen as my 12 year niece. This is it boys, the only chance we were going to get a grand station was when the original Moynihan station plan was proposed and shut down by Shellie Silver. The only other way I see this happening is that the economy tanks even more to the point of a major recession and the Fed's fund it as a stimulus for NYC economy...

    I love going back to read the beginning-middle of this thread where everything I said came true

  14. #2039
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    I'm going to look on the bright side.

    I've said it before (and I will say it again damn it!) that the SOM design is not that great and so hopefully when they revive this project again later down the road, maybe they will get a clue and do a remake (or a close replica) of the destroyed Penn Station.

    I still don't know why they can't do that. It can't be cost because a completely new design can be just as if not more expensive. I just think it's a lack of vision.

  15. #2040
    10 Barclay = Decepticon Optimus Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Isle of Manna-hata


    They do have a vision, it's just that their vision is opening the top of Penn Station with a glass roof. Seriously, they are obsessed with the glass roof. I guess they don't teach how to make a space light and airy without resorting to all glass in architecture school anymore.

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