New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

[TRAINFAN]

I was thinking just the porch; the block-long staircase, landing, columns, the heavy attic story, and pediments. I'd like to see the statuaries that once flanked the main clock back. Instead of going through stone, once on the "porch landing," you go through a very clear (and modern) glass curtain wall to get into the station, which extends upward, above the "porch." A glass canopy can go above the concourses and platforms; somewhere towers can be added above that, which would be typically glass or maybe even stainless steel and glass. With this idea, you can view the facade head on and between the columns you could see all the way through the station, maybe to the other side.

No classical interiors; just wide, open space to maximize circulation and minimize crowding. The platforms can be open air, with balconies above them. The flooring can be the same type of marble as the facade, like GCT. I think it could be very interesting. This facade can go all the way around the building or just opposite Farley, to create a unified "image" on 8th ave. Of course if there is to be street level retail, then the classical facade all the way around might not work, unless the "porch landing" serves as a retail corridor, which would keep rain off of shoppers, and keep the shopping foot traffic off the actual sidewalk. Also, retail can face inward in the station, and provide a sort of enclosed shopping plaza with a lot of light above the platforms. I like the previous idea, the outdoor pedestrian shopping corridor on the facade porch. . . Or, even further, since the interior space is so massive, stand-alone structures can be built within the station (oversized kiosks, basically), that can serve retail; like a starbucks and other cafes. They do this in London, at Waterloo Station and also at London-Euston, and St. Pancras.

I have to say, I loved your idea when I read it. Are you still interested in it after 4 years? Also, would you be willing to post pictures of what it would look like? Not renderings, but of other stations, so we can have the feel of it.

[mhh222]

The 60s stadia were cookie-cutter because they all looked the same, with almost identical field layouts.

Whether or not you like any or all of the retro-stadia is a matter of opinion, but the fact is they don't look the same. So how can you call them cookie-cutter?

Zippy, understood on the use of "cookie cutter" but I didn't mean it in the literal sense. Maybe formulaic is the better term.

The first of this crop, Camden Yards in Baltimore, was original and was/is great (although may have been a copy of something I'm unaware of in the minor leagues, it was at least the first of its kind among MLB stadia). I can even give a pass to Coors Field, which followed. But now they're popping up like this everywhere and the designs, in many cases, are just dumb. Citi field is obviously retro to Ebbets Field but how does that form make any sense in the middle of parking lots in Flushing Meadows, Queens? Ebbets field's form was dictated by the street grid in its location in Brooklyn. Same as many others of its day, including OYS, Fenway Park, and Wrigley Field. The retro NYS is the biggest disappointment of all! Given that tearing down the Cathedral was apparently unavoidable (a function of pure greed), at least Steinbrenner could have taken the approach, consistent with his ego, of creating the greatest 21st century stadium on earth. While NYS has all the amenities, it is far from the greatest stadium, let alone the greatest baseball stadium, from a design perspective. I haven't been to the new Cowboys Stadium in Dallas, but I sure think that was Jerry Jones' approach and from everything I've heard, he pretty much accomplished it, for less money than NYS, albeit at cheaper Texas construction costs!

[TRAINFAN]

Are we talking about Stadiums or Moynihan Station? Can we get back to that now?

[mhh222]

Are we talking about Stadiums or Moynihan Station? Can we get back to that now?

You're right! So does anyone now what the plans are, if any for the facade? Haven't seen anything on the MSG site except the interiors.

[lofter1]

That lack of info ^ is exactly why this thread will continue to drift off on tangents. When real news on the project comes in, you'll see things get back on track. It's the nature of how threads play out here at WNY, so enjoy the ride.

[Music Man]

Are we talking about Stadiums or Moynihan Station? Can we get back to that now?

Yes, please. I was beginning to wonder if I was actually in the Mets Stadium thread. I don't think I could handle another three page debate on right fields.

[BStyles]

You do realize that MSG plays a focal part in the Moynihan Station development, right?

[londonlawyer]

On Dec. 16, 2011, I walked from Penn Station up 7th Avenue (and zigzagged a few times to B'Way). This stretch has some stunning, old towers that could use some TLC. I hope that these beautiful gems are never razed or covered up with glass facades. Also, the parking spaces on the Broadway Blvd should be eliminated and filled with greenery.

[TRAINFAN]

We should have Foster do Farley Post Office instead of SOM. Then, when the time comes, if he is still alive, we hire him to design a new Train Station. Should we try to have recreate the Old Penn, like how he recreated and restored Dresden Station, or should he do something completely different that is new, yet pays tribute to the old Penn in both form and orientation. In the meanwhile, we should gut existing Penn beneath Madison Square Garden down to the structure, reconstruct it and combine the two concourse levels into one. Also, we could also investigate ripping out the Theater at Madison Square Garden out so that natural light could come down to the concourse. The new design will have the same principles as the new LIRR Concourse at GCT; modernist in expression, but respectful of and consistent of the Beaux Arts styles of the McKim Mead and White Penn Station and Farley Post Office. Also, when they take down existing MSG and build a new headhouse, the designs must be consistent with each other. We should also try to rebuild the track level as well. Rip everything out at the platform level and construct new tracks, signals, platforms, and power supply at a rapid pace. If the army can do rapid construction in times of war, than surely we can endure something delays and other construction for a few months. Existing passenger trains on the LIRR, NJ Transit, and Amtrak can terminate at Hoboken, GCT, and Long Island City. A plan should be drawn up for temporary transit solutions to mitigate congestion during this period. Okay, what do you think of that?

[BBMW]

When is Farley/Moinihan supposed to open?

[BBMW]

The problem is that a lot of those buildings are probably functionally obsolete. Maybe they could be gut ronovated to bring them up to date, but I wonder if they also have unused air rights that could be harvested in redevelopment?

On Dec. 16, 2011, I walked from Penn Station up 7th Avenue (and zigzagged a few times to B'Way). This stretch has some stunning, old towers that could use some TLC. I hope that these beautiful gems are never razed or covered up with glass facades. Also, the parking spaces on the Broadway Blvd should be eliminated and filled with greenery.

[londonlawyer]

They could make them into apartment rentals or Class-B/C office space. Most businesses can't afford to pay $50/sf+ for space.

[ZippyTheChimp]

When is Farley/Moinihan supposed to open?

Phase I is under construction, and scheduled to be complete in 2015 - West End Concourse and 33rd St connector.





The only exterior changes to the Farley Building will be two street level entrances at the north and south corners of 8th Ave.



Amtrak can move operations into the Farley building when Phase 1 is complete.

Phase 2 will cost $1 billion, and so far, there is zero funding.

Another problem: Amtrak has stated that to enhance service on its Washington - Boston route, the only one in the system that's profitable, it has to move out of the present Penn Station into Farley. That sounds good, except that Amtrak lost $1.3 billion last year, and says it can't afford to pay rent at Farley (Amtrak owns the present Penn Station).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...oo-costly.html

[TRAINFAN]

Perhaps New York should think about selling off the Javits Center. The sale could bring in billions, and could be used to fund a new, state of the art trade show facility, a state of the art conference center, and Moynihan Station. That should solve the funding problem. Read this article on the RPA which explains it: http://www.rpa.org/2011/10/spotlight...ts-center.html

[BBMW]

That wouldn't work. They need something bigger than Javits, and the Farley building in it's entirety, is smaller than Javitz.

Perhaps New York should think about selling off the Javits Center. The sale could bring in billions, and could be used to fund a new, state of the art trade show facility, a state of the art conference center, and Moynihan Station. That should solve the funding problem. Read this article on the RPA which explains it: http://www.rpa.org/2011/10/spotlight...ts-center.html