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Thread: New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

  1. #241

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    I asked you some very simple questions about your "theory", but all I get is:

    "I don't have to explain myself"

    Funny, I kinda thought youīd give that sort of intelligent, well reasoned answer...

    No Alex... it doesnīt work that way. Thatīs not how to debate an issue. If your statements are true, then you back them up. Obviously you canīt. You canīt ....because your theory is full of holes.

  2. #242

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    ...like swiss cheese, baby!

    No, seriously. Your fighting basic supply and demand. Any numbers from "Forbes" or "Inc" is not going to talk about that. I'm talking about office space.


    Right now, you win. There is a lot of office space. According to Newyorkbiz.com, Midtown is running at a 10% vacany. But we're in a bad economy. We need room to expand for the good economy.

    It's all economics. Proff? Go to howstuffworks.com and type in "Economy". It will tell you right there.


    More Apartments=less price
    Less Apartments=more price


    Ready for more facts?

    Look at Tribeca and Soho. Pricy right? How many new units of housing are being built there. Now look at Brooklyn and Queens. Less expensive? More housing.


    There's all the proof you need.

  3. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan
    Not a very useful comparison... MetLife's siting astride park ave is offensive because it blocks miles of open vista, which would be so much more beautiful with only Helmsley and GC. Farley is mid block, so there is nothing to block. Granted, I liked the originial sketches with no tower best myself, but I don't think a tower done well will ruin the design. Again, I point to Hearst.
    The metlife building has become this cliche that everyone loves to hate -- it destroys the views, yada, yada, yada... but let's be honest you get straight shot views up and down every avenue -- only park avenue takes on that special quality precisely because it is blocked by metlife -- as the buildings get taller towards to GC super-clump it's like the whole city of glass towers, those icons of global capitalism are rising in this crazy crescendo that is the metlife tower. Also, in its colossal flatness the metlife doesn't diminish the helmsley or the GC but provides a great backdrop -- look at it... without the GC the helmesly, though nice, would be a narrow object with space rushing around it and the GC would be too low to make an impact from far down park avenue south... with the metlife building their the entire area has a far more defined spatial character. I'm an architect, and I walk around that area all the time with friends who tell me they hate the metlife building-- when i ask them why the always give the same reasons, and after i make them aware of these points and ask them to look again they start to realize that it ain't so bad... it's the nouveau-post-modern-fake brick monstrosity's on the upper east side we should be complaining about.

  4. #244

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    Again youīve completely ignored my simple questions to your original post. Not a good sign Alex.

    Further more:

    If the: "More Apartments=less price....Less Apartments=more price" theory is true, why do apartment prices just keep rising? Do you HONESTLY expect Manhattan to become a cheaper place to live now that more housing is being built there?

    And:

    "Look at Tribeca and Soho. Pricy right? How many new units of housing are being built there. Now look at Brooklyn and Queens. Less expensive? More housing".

    Brooklyn and Queens are not less expensive than Soho because there is more housing there. LOL. They are less expensive because they are less desirable.

    And yet even so, there is much, much more living space in Soho and Tribeca than 5 or 10 years ago...why haveīt prices gone down?

  5. #245

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    You want proff costs are hurting NYC's position as a world leader?:

    [link]http://inc.com/magazine/20050501/bestcities.html[/link]

    [link]http://www.forbes.com/home/global/2005/0704/076.html[/link]


    Go ahead and tell me it's not "costs". What else could it be? And it specifclly says LA is doing better too.


    Now what do you say?

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex ballard
    They're high for a variety of reasons.

    I don't have to explain myself, for one reason:

    In 20 years, when your buddies manage to wipe NYC off the economic map, everything I said will have been true. Everything.


    Time will prove me right.
    Alex, you do have to explain yourself - that's the whole point of this forum - we all post our ideas and make arguments to support them. Your argumentative posts are detracting from other people's experience of this forum, and I'd ask you to stop. Look how off topic you took this thread - you're talking about LA replacing NYC the financial capital, yadda yadda when this is about the farley building conversion.

    Please contribute more thoughtful posts that add to the forum.
    Last edited by ryan; June 28th, 2005 at 11:32 AM.

  7. #247

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    As for your above post: Housing prices are high becasue that's what people are using to invest. It's called a housing bubble. When it bursts, my theroy will prove true.

    Also, You're in Tuscany. How can you relate to growth when Italy is losing people? I heard the average Italian has 0.8 kids. That's stagnation if you ask me. Which is why Europe is dying.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfgam
    The metlife building has become this cliche that everyone loves to hate -- it destroys the views, yada, yada, yada...
    It's a commendably optimistic point of view to appreciate the metlife for the contrast it provides to the other buildings. I'll use that next time I feel like playing devil's advocate...

  9. #249

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    Please stay on topic.

    Alex, check your PMs.

  10. #250

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    My apologies to the forum but I canīt let this kid just spout random BS:

    "Also, You're in Tuscany. How can you relate to growth when Italy is losing people? I heard the average Italian has 0.8 kids. That's stagnation if you ask me. Which is why Europe is dying."

    Italyīs population is GROWING. It is not losing people. It is gaining people due to a high immigration rate. The birth rate, while still very low, is also growing... again because of immigration.

    And about the Fox-news style know-nothing sound bite: "Europe is dying". Europe right now has a currency about 30% stronger than the dollar. Donīt sound like no dead man...

  11. #251
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    Whoa, Nelly. Let's get back on topic guys, okay?

    P.S. Alex: That Best Cities article says that New York has actually risen several places on the list in the past few years.

    Okay, I'm done.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    My apologies to the forum but I canīt let this kid just spout random BS:

    "Also, You're in Tuscany. How can you relate to growth when Italy is losing people? I heard the average Italian has 0.8 kids. That's stagnation if you ask me. Which is why Europe is dying."

    Italyīs population is GROWING. It is not losing people. It is gaining people due to a high immigration rate. The birth rate, while still very low, is also growing... again because of immigration.

    And about the Fox-news style know-nothing sound bite: "Europe is dying". Europe right now has a currency about 30% stronger than the dollar. Donīt sound like no dead man...
    Why don't you and Alex make a new thread about 'Europe vs USA' somewhere else... Please.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    Alex, let me ask you again:

    If "less office space equals more expense".....
    Funny (or not), I interpreted it as: The money a company would pay for the rights to develop the office tower would offset the price of the redevelopment of the post office into Penn Station. So, less or no office space would make the redevelopment of Penn Station more expensive.

    Post Posting Note:

    In the time it took me to write this, we seem to have traveled to Italy and back. Welcome home everyone.

  14. #254
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    Brooklyn is right a office tower would help offset costs and possible if they got the tower going first it could fund the station rehab

  15. #255
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    I have to somewhat agree with Fabrizio about the location of the tower. I am not too sure yet until I see more renderings. It just look like it doesnt belong there for some reason.

    But It can also attract some companies who rather be next to a major train station. But then again, there is a lot of available and open land close to it.

    I know that this area will be as expensive as Grand Central one day. Isn't thats why alot of companies pay a huge price to be next to Grand Central? I think they do anyway because they want to be close to a suburbanite station.

    Now I was under the impression though that the money to build the new penn station was already in a 'piggy bank' somewhere. So what do you mean by 'help offset costs'

    What costs? After all the money available has been spend?

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