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Thread: New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

  1. #2611
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    I thought the same thing. It would be a shame if a half-assed "fix" is enacted in which msg is not razed.
    Dolan is strategizing to make sure that doesn't happen. He personally hosted Governor Cuomo's press conference at Madison Square Garden and has agreed to give up the Madison Square Garden Paramount Theater to be demolished for the new Penn Station plan. He's clearly giving something to prevent something bigger from being taken away and now he's in the fold of the project. Although, if the theater were doing well I doubt he would have offered it. The seating configuration sucks and I bet it's losing money

  2. #2612

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    It's not a lease. MSG owns the property. It's not going anywhere. The Dolans seem to be in on this deal. I get the feeling that there's a swap in place where the MTA will get whatever they call the smaller theater under MSG (Felt Forum, Paramount Theater, it's had lots of names), in return for Cuomo pushing through a renewal of MSGs operating agreement (what you're thinking about expiring.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    Penn Station will never be fixed until that dump known as MSG is completely removed. Not just the theater, but the arena too. We can't wait until their lease ends in 7 years or whenever.

    Until that cancer is gone, it's a band-aid solution. We can't wait for a Phase 2, removing the Garden. Do it first.

  3. #2613

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    Just think about how much money MSG brings in (and how much money the Dolan's can and will spend in campaign contributions to save it.) MSG is not going anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by scumonkey View Post
    Just think how much money could be saved by getting rid of it now, rather than the inevitable later.

  4. #2614

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    Moving MSG won't stop the new arena from bringing in that same money.
    Eff the Dolans (and their tax breaks), the pendulum is swinging for MSG in it's current location
    Wish in one hand (that the garden won't be moved), and $hit in the other- see which one fill up faster...

  5. #2615
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    It's not a lease. MSG owns the property.
    Right, but he's referring to the license to operate a 5K+ venue which expires in 7 years. No license, no MSG

    Quote Originally Posted by scumonkey View Post
    Moving MSG won't stop the new arena from bringing in that same money.
    That, however is completely false. There is a huge ticket premium based on that location alone. The Corporate crowd is who pays $500 to see a meaningless weekday Knicks or Rangers opponent and they're not paying that to take their client to Harlem or Queens

    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    The Dolans seem to be in on this deal.
    A matter of necessity, it's hard for Sheldon to have Jim's back while sharing a bunk with a guy named Bubba at Sing Sing

  6. #2616

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    That, however is completely false. There is a huge ticket premium based on that location alone. The Corporate crowd is who pays $500 to see a meaningless weekday Knicks or Rangers opponent and they're not paying that to take their client to Harlem or Queens
    Only false if the Garden moves out of Manhattan...Who ever said it would be moved to Harlem or Queens?

  7. #2617
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    Well, I assume you know Harlem is actually in Manhattan

    But as for large prime Manhattan locations, they just don't exist to be had. Hudson Yards was the last area of open land left. Everything else, especially anything premium in terms of transportation especially will involve razing and a King's ransom

  8. #2618

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    Well, I assume you know Harlem is actually in Manhattan
    I never said it wasn't.

  9. #2619

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    Well, there still is 207th Yard. Since MTA is quite keen on selling air rights over all of their yards it would be a prime location for new development.

    MSG, however, is another story. GG is right, it's all about location and unfortunately MSG sits right at the heart of the commotion. Place the stadium much higher, and on top of a brand new station need be, but owning that piece of land is a gold mine. In a few years, Barclays Center will do the same for Brooklyn, if it hasn't already.

  10. #2620

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    You do realize that Cuomo just eliminated any hope of MSG moving anywhere, don't you. It's now a done deal that it's staying.

    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...ing10-20160108

    They won’t say the word, but bittersweet would be an accurate way to describe how advocates for a Penn Station overhaul felt when Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday that he would renovate the decrepit transportation hub.The reason: Cuomo is proceeding as if Madison Square Garden will remain atop Penn Station. Champions of transportation improvements had been hoping that the Garden would move when its permit expires in seven years, allowing for its demolition and a grand transformation of the station.
    “With the Garden above it, you’re not going to have a majestic hall,” said one insider. “It will look more like an airport terminal.”
    It probably doesn’t help the move-the-Garden crowd’s cause that one of Cuomo’s closest and most loyal aides, Joe Percoco, was recently named a Madison Square Garden executive.

  11. #2621

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    That article doesn't read so black and white to me as you suggest...nothing is carved in stone- close maybe, but not yet.

  12. #2622

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    Cuomo will tell the city, you can get a somewhat improved Penn Station if you keep MSG, but if you force MSG to close, no money will be forthcoming to tear down MSG and build the Penn Palace. That seems to be the deal on the table. The city really has no leverage to come back with. They don't control the MTA, they don't have the money to do it themselves, and the don't own the site.

  13. #2623

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    The Real Deal
    May 3, 2016

    What’s standing in the way of Penn Station’s makeover?

    By Kathryn Brenzel


    Rendering of a renovated Penn Station (credit: Municipal Art Society)

    If the redevelopment of Penn Station is going to move forward, Mayor Bill de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo will need to start playing nice.

    “One thing that’s going to have to be discussed, and they don’t seem to be doing tremendously well right now, is the relationship between the governor and the mayor,” said Chris Ward, senior vice president of AECOM and the former executive director at Port Authority. “Unlocking the value of what the new Penn Station will be and capturing that value is going to require hopefully a degree of cooperation.”

    Ward briefly touched on the acrimonious relationship between the two men during a panel held by Crain’s on Monday. Another panelist, Anthony Coscia, chairman of AMTRAK, said that the project had not yet been impacted by any disharmony between Cuomo and de Blasio. He did say that the project will be an uphill battle for other reasons, such as cost and sorting out the logistics of the private and public partnership.

    “We have to figure out a way to do this,” he said. “Money isn’t the only problem. The other problem is execution. We need to learn how to build these things.”

    Representatives for de Blasio and Cuomo did not immediately return requests seeking comment.

    Last week, teams of designers and developers submitted proposals for the $3 billion redevelopment of Penn Station and the James A. Farley Building. Dozens of companies showed interest in the projects, including some of the real estate industry’s biggest names. The request for proposals for Penn Station included five design options, including one that would demolish Madison Square Garden’s Paramount Theater to create an entrance at Eighth Avenue.

    Monday’s panel largely danced around the fate of the entire Madison Square Garden arena, which has a license to operate at its current location through 2028. At one point, the moderator asked if the arena was entrenching itself at the current location or had reached an agreement with the governor to demolish its theater in exchange for staying put. These questions went unanswered.

    It’s a bit of a delicate subject: Cuomo’s former aide turned Madison Square Garden executive, Joseph Percoco, is currently the subject of a federal investigation over alleged conflict of interests. According to the Wall Street Journal, Percoco has also continued to advocate for the governor behind the scenes, including during the most recent state budget talks.

    The Municipal Art Society has been one of the most vocal advocacy group’s calling for the relocation of the arena. Gina Pollara, president of MAS, said the state needs to take a more holistic view of the project, one that expands the track capacity and addresses the future of Madison Square Garden.

    “Until we understand the problem we’re solving for, I just think the governor’s plan is for a limited aesthetic change rather than dealing with the issue of track capacity,” she said.

    Ward, whose company is involved in one of the proposals for the project, said he didn’t like that the arena “becomes the defining question” of Penn Station’s redevelopment. Both he and Coscia said the project is being approached incrementally without precluding other options that could expand track capacity.

    “Penn is a catalyst now for us at least getting started,” Ward said.

    All rights reserved © 2016

  14. #2624

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    Msg must go.

  15. #2625
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Msg must go.
    hear, hear

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