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Thread: New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

  1. #301
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1
    The only subway connection to Farley will be the ACE on 8th ave, east of the station. The whole thing is kind of pointless, except for adding a couple tracks for NJ Transit...
    Pardon my ignorance...

    Isn't the LIRR going to stay put and use the existing tracks / platforms / station?

    And won't the new Moynihan / Farley be an adjunct to the existing below-ground AMTRAK / NJ Transit platforms under MSG?

    And any new construction on MSG site would be built around the existing tracks / platforms?

    And underground connections from Subway 1, 2 & 3 to Subway A, C, E, etc. would remain (and extended to Moynihan / Farley)?

    Or is everything under the MSG block to be torn out (can't even begin to imagine why that would take place)?

  2. #302

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    That concourse design has great potential to improve general financial efficiency in the building. The large amount of sunlight would lower general heating costs during the winter, and the water (which is drained probably just how lofter1 hypothesized) could be filtered and used in lavatories/fountains. I wonder if they had all this in mind already lol.

  3. #303

    Default Yes but...

    Transportation hubs are all about the linkages.
    The subway links are way east and west of the new station. You can walk there, yes, but is there any real improvement to the hub system with the new 7 train and Farley? That would have to be no. If the 7 stopped at the new station, it would be yes, but this is not the case now, and both the 7 and 1/9 will now be 2 long blocks away. Airport style moving sidewalks will be a requirement.

  4. #304
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    The Slatin Report
    NYC 07 19 05

    PENN UPDATE: MOYNIHAN MOVES

    Peter Slatin



    What will the new Daniel Patrick Moynihan Station look like? Well, things could change - if development plans unveiled at a sweltering press conference Monday stay on track, it won’t be opening until 2011.

    But people inside the coalescing groups of developers and designers that have been assembled for this nearly $1 billion undertaking appear determined to complete the transformation of the James A. Farley Post Office over the next five years. To begin with, the Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust, which were awarded development rights to the property by New York State, must now formalize their working arrangement. Top executives at both Vornado and Related told The Slatin Report today that the two companies will create a new subsidiary to oversee the joint venture. For Related, the project will unfold under the direction of Vishaan Chakrabarty, who served in the Bloomberg administration until late last year as head of the Manhattan office of the Dept. of City Planning, and also previously worked at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.

    Vornado has not yet said who it will name to oversee the project following the expected departure of its top development executive, Mel Blum. But sources and observers speculate that Related’s somewhat larger development infrastructure will be involved in more of the day-to-day operations at the P.O.

    Vornado also brings a key element to the project – a development site across 33rd Street from the Farley building, which will allow the team to realize the project’s size potential without encumbering the historic facade of the post office building, which opened on Labor Day in 1914. Addressing a sensitive issue at the press conference, Empire State Development Corp. Chairman Charles Gargano took pains to note that any new development will include uses other than office space, and thus not compete with the redevelopment effort underway in Lower Manhattan.

    The Moynihan Station design effort itself is also a collaboration, between HOK New York and Jamie Carpenter Design Associates, a noted designer of structural glass elements who has worked on major New York skyscrapers such as the Bear, Stearns headquarters at 383 Madison Ave. and 7 World Trade Center. Both of these were designed by David Childs of SOM, who designed an earlier version of the Moynihan project; he is now involved in it only as a consultant to New York State.

    Some of the component pieces of the project were described in a conversation with Ken Drucker, design director of HOK New York and the firm’s lead design architect on the project – which HOK has been involved with since it was first conceived of by the late Sen. Moynihan in 1989. HOK worked in the early 1990s on schematic designs and a master plan, and was approached again last year by Related as that firm was preparing its bid; Related later brought in Vornado as well.

    When completed, the station will have three main public spaces, Drucker explains: a 140-foot-square Train Hall, which will be in the original post office building; a 60-by-200-foot Intermodal Hall, joining the commuter rail lines and subways, which will be in the “interstitial space” that separates the Eighth Avenue post office building from its annex, which fronts on Ninth Avenue; and a 60-by 300-foot East/West Corridor, joining the Intermodal Hall with the annex.

    It is in finding the right uses for the areas around and above these vast public spaces is where the developers will want – and need – to flex their expertise. At present, the train hall, with transit-related retail on the concourse level, will be topped on all four sides by a hotel that will encircle it for three stories. Two more floors of retail plus one floor of the hotel will sit above the intermodal hall; another entire floor of the annex may be given over to a merchandise mart – a neat fit for a business that requires commuting and hoteling for buyers. Vornado owns and operates the vast Merchandise Mart building in Chicago.

    The station, which will include 11 new tracks, will serve New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road. Officials predict it will create 3,300 permanent jobs – some of which may be to protect the 33 entry points that have been envisioned in the new plan. Absent from the plan: Amtrak, the beleaguered railroad, which pulled out of planning for the station last year over budget worries.

    Although at this point it’s all conceptual, the concept has actually been moved forward. Despite deploying a stream of clich?s to describe the project, from “gateway” to “launching pad,” the public and private participants in the announcement seemed genuinely awed at the idea that they might get something huge and important accomplished. It will cost them, and the outcome is not to be predicted. But the occasion even called for a fleeting moment of candor from Gov. Pataki, a politician known for glad-handing and indeed just back from a glad-handing visit to Iowa. Asked if he thought Amtrak might eventually join the Moynihan Station party, he spat out, “If they get their act together.”

    Indeed, all parties to this vast and complex project will need to keep that sentiment in mind.

  5. #305

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    I love big open glass roofs like that but it just aint cutting edge architecture

  6. #306
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO
    The Slatin Report
    NYC 07 18 05

    PENN RIDES AGAIN

    The new facility offers ... approximately 1 million square feet of development rights that can be transferred from the landmarked post office to adjacent sites. According to the Times, Vornado plans to build an office tower using those rights at the northeast corner of the site.
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO
    The Slatin Report
    NYC 07 19 05

    PENN UPDATE: MOYNIHAN MOVES

    Vornado also brings a key element to the project – a development site across 33rd Street from the Farley building, which will allow the team to realize the project’s size potential ...
    The site described at the NE corner of 8th Ave (33rd / 34th) fronts the full block and continues about another 100 feet east on 33 & 34.

    If my calculations are correct (admittedly this is highly questionable!!), the info above would mean that this new building could be at least 65 stories.

    (One Penn Plaza, at 57 stories, sits on the same block across a small block-through plaza and right next to the site described.)

  7. #307
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    This project will not feature any new tracks or platforms, they will extend some platforms that do not currently run underneath the Post office. Not all of the platforms of Penn Station will be accesible from the Post office Station, this project will provide more access points to NJ Transit's platforms but no new platforms.

    It provides a nice place for travelers waiting for trains, decent shopping, restaraunts, Starbucks etc.. It also presents itself as a more fitting entrance to the City for folks arriving in the City from Newark Airport via Airtrain/NJ Transit.

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    The site described at the NE corner of 8th Ave (33rd / 34th) fronts the full block and continues about another 100 feet east on 33 & 34.

    If my calculations are correct (admittedly this is highly questionable!!), the info above would mean that this new building could be at least 65 stories.

    (One Penn Plaza, at 57 stories, sits on the same block across a small block-through plaza and right next to the site described.)
    You said it. While the core will probably face 1 Penn Plaza there will be pressure to make it taller than 1 Penn Plaza so that there will be penthouses with views in all directions and of the Empire State Building.

  9. #309
    The Dude Abides
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    More info and renderings:

    New Penn Station no longer dream



    Developers chosen for $818M project


    BY PAUL D. COLFORD
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

    State and city officials yesterday named the developers who will replace one of the city's lost jewels - the old Pennsylvania Station - with a new gem.

    After years of delay, the city, state and two big developers are all aboard with a design to turn the main post office on Eighth Ave. into a grand transit hub recalling the elegant Pennsylvania Station that was razed in 1963.

    The $818 million plan will preserve the handsome facade of the James A. Farley Post Office, erected in 1913, while adapting the building as the new Daniel Patrick Moynihan Station, to honor the late U.S. senator, who pushed hard for the idea.

    "This is going to be a magnificent gateway for New York," Gov. Pataki said at yesterday's unveiling of the design, which also calls for shops, restaurants and a boutique hotel.

    Pataki noted that more than 500,000 subway, NJTransit, Long Island Rail Road and Amtrak riders a day now use Penn Station, a bland hub located across Eighth Ave. He called the current location "horribly inadequate." It's "certainly not an appropriate gateway to the greatest city in the world," he added.

    As envisioned by James Carpenter Design Associates, in collaboration with Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum, the new central train hall will mirror the old Penn Station through the addition of tall, steel arches on which will sit a huge, yet lightweight, skylight.

    A second, so-called "grid shell skylight" will be set atop a hall to be located roughly in the middle of the building, between Eighth and Ninth Aves., that will serve as a taxi station and baggage dropoff.

    The winning plan for the project was submitted by a team of major New York developers, The Related Cos. and Vornado Realty Trust, which has extensive holdings in the area.

    The companies will put up about $300 million of the projected $818 million cost at different stages before the work is completed in 2010.

    The city, state and federal governments and the Port Authority are also helping to fund the project, whose main transit beneficiary will be NJTransit trains.

    The congestion that commuters now face in reaching the track level in Penn Station will be relieved with the addition of staircases and other access to 11 platforms that already sit under the Farley building.

    The Postal Service will occupy 250,000 square feet.

    Up to 1 million square feet of air rights will be applied to the northeast corner of Eighth Ave. and 33rd St., where a Duane Reade store now stands. A residential tower is expected to rise there, next to Vornado-owned 1Penn Plaza.

    "The completion of the Moynihan Station gives a second chance to recapture the extraordinary station that once was Penn Station," said Charles Gargano, chairman of the state Economic Development Corp.

    Gargano's agency spearheaded the plan and arranged for the planned purchase of the Farley building from the Postal Service for $230 million.

    Yesterday's unveiling was the latest chapter in a long-running effort to give the Farley building new life as a transit hub.

    Moynihan's dream project seemed far along six years ago, when then-President Bill Clinton came to New York to join Pataki and the senator in introducing plans for "the new Penn Station" in the Farley building.

    Amtrak, the owner of Penn Station, was then onboard, but has since pulled back its planned financial contribution.

    Mayor Bloomberg said the project will create more than 10,000 construction jobs, more than 3,300 permanent jobs and more than $50 million a year intax revenue, and provide an anchor destination amid plans for new West Side development.





    Applause as urban wrong is righted

    BY PAUL D. COLFORD
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER



    There'll never be anything like old Penn Station - but preservationists yesterday cheered the attempt to right a four-decade wrong by turning the main post office into a majestic transit hub.

    "I'm also thrilled that it will be a train station, not a development site," said New York Landmarks Conservancy President Peg Breen. "The train hall, evoking the old Penn Station, is a masterful touch. I think all New Yorkers should be very happy.

    "Now, let's get going with it."

    The razing of the original Penn Station in 1963 galvanized the preservation movement in New York, and led to the creation of the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission, which protects historic buildings.

    The use of the post office - an architectural twin to Penn Station, designed by the same firm, McKim, Mead & White - has drawn wide praise.

    Municipal Art Society President Kent Barwick, whose organization helped lead the fight to preserve Grand Central Terminal in the 1970s, said the design for the new hub is "an exciting beginning."

    "The significance of this building has been underappreciated in overall planning for the West Side," he added.

    Aurora Wallace, who teaches in the culture and communications department at New York University, said: "Insofar as this is an attempt to right the wrong of the current Penn Station, the design should be applauded.

    "I've never met an architecture historian who didn't think the destruction of the old Penn Station was a disaster. This new design looks more monumental and important than what's currently in use."

    Copyright 2005 The New York Daily News

  10. #310
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    Say what you want about this new plan. Sure, we can't literally bring back the old Penn Station, but I think this is pretty good. I'm especially relieved that there won't be any highrise construction above the train station itself, and I'm looking forward to a nice highrise across the street. I know there used to be a plan for tower at Penn Plaza at some point, and it looked pretty decent.

    There's one thing I'm a little unnerved about. I read in one of the articles that there's a plan to include a hotel inside the train station. I'm concerned this will create a tacky look while inside the building, as you'll be looking up at hotel room windows surrounding you in the atrium. It's interesting that no one here has raised eyebrows about it so far. And while it may sound very unusual, I know that it's been done at least once before. The Hyatt Regency St. Louis is housed within the beautifully restored Union Station, itself a National Landmark. It was built in 1894 and was at the time, the country's biggest and busiest train station. Perhaps Hyatt's success may lead it to open up another hotel in Moynihan Station. Here are some pictures of what the St. Louis station/hotel looks like:

    The Exterior


    The Grand Hall


    The Regency Club Atrium


    The Gothic Corridor
    Last edited by pianoman11686; July 20th, 2005 at 01:41 AM.

  11. #311
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT757
    This project will not feature any new tracks or platforms, they will extend some platforms that do not currently run underneath the Post office. Not all of the platforms of Penn Station will be accesible from the Post office Station, this project will provide more access points to NJ Transit's platforms but no new platforms.
    Thanks for the clarification. My brain is still having some trouble getting a clear picture of what the end result below-ground will be...

    Ultimately what will happen to the existing below-ground LIRR station, concourses and connections to subway lines?

    Are those to remain after Moynihan / Farley is completed?

    And if AMTRAK doesn't "get their act together" (as Pataki noted AMTRAK must do if it is to be a part of Moynihan) where will the AMTRAK station be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    And if AMTRAK doesn't "get their act together" (as Pataki noted AMTRAK must do if it is to be a part of Moynihan) where will the AMTRAK station be?
    Amtrak would remain at the old Penn station under MSG - which is pathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO
    The Slatin Report
    NYC 07 19 05

    .... For Related, the project will unfold under the direction of Vishaan Chakrabarty...
    <ding, dong> Hi Mrs. Chakrabarty! Can Vishaan come out and play?

    __________________________________________________ ___________

    Sorry - had to do it.


    Anyway, don't understand why the post office won't relinquish the site. Is there a strong argument for not moving the post office to a different site or new building?

  14. #314
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO
    Amtrak would remain at the old Penn station under MSG - which is pathetic.
    So does that mean that the existing station would remain and continue to operate and that all construction above (should MSG be razed) would have to take place around the business of the AMTRAK station?

    If so then that's one hell of a job for a project manager!!

    Anyone know the agreement / lease term that AMTRAK has at the current station?

  15. #315

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    Everything in the current Penn Station will remain. In fact, there are plans for additional underground expansion. The Moynihan Station is an addition to Penn, not a replacement.

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