Here are quotes from two different articles:Originally Posted by Citytect
NY Times
Mr. Silver said he favored a nascent, but far more comprehensive proposal to modernize and expand Penn Station on both sides of Eighth Avenue, between 31st and 33rd Streets, by demolishing Madison Square Garden and building a new arena at the back of the post office building.
Charles A. Gargano, the state’s top economic development official, said that the Moynihan Project was the only one up for state approval. The larger proposal, which is referred to as Plan B or Phase II, must still wend its way through the approval process and requires another $1 billion for station renovations.
Further complicating the matter, the Garden has lobbied in Albany against approving the Moynihan project now in the hope of preserving its leverage in negotiations with both the developers and the city. At the same time, the developers, who must put down $150 million when the deal closes, have curried favor with Mr. Gargano and separately with Mr. Spitzer, while trying to stay out of the line of fire.
Mr. Silver said that Plan B provides far more transportation benefits for Metro North and Long Island Rail Road riders, as well as New Jersey Transit commuters, than does the Moynihan project. As for the estimated $1 billion cost of rehabilitating Penn Station, Mr. Silver said the developers should help pay for it.
Here's a little more:
Silver also had this to say:NY Post
Silver repeated his past objections that the plan backed by Pataki doesn't include a revised proposal to build a new Madison Square Garden. As a result, he said, he'll likely boycott the PACB vote.
Charles Gargano, Pataki's economic-development director, warned that if the project wasn't approved at the PACB meeting, "we risk losing millions of dollars of approved funding."
But Silver responded that further delay would not endanger funding for the massive project because "we've checked with Washington, and there's no indication that the financing would be threatened."
"So, while the governor is putting on rallies, instead he should be putting together a presentation of the full plan," Silver added.
Regardless of today's vote, Silver said, "I'm confident of the full plan being implemented."
I know a lot of you guys hate Silver, but, frankly, I think he's right on this one. With the Jets stadium fiasco, I thought his reasoning behind ending the project was wrong, but I didn't complain about it because I think the stadium was a terrible idea. However, with Moynihan, I think his decision AND his reasoning are right. I have no complaints about postponing the project; the current proposal just isn't what it should be.
We'll end up with nothing. Maybe they'll turn part of the empty post office into a flea market while they wrangle for the next twenty years.
What people dont understand is that Moynihan will be relegated to history now and we probably will not see anything done for this part of town for a LONG time. This is basically a missed opportunity to start the work, Farley post office should not be used to house the new Garden a huge stadium. The new garden should be placed on the other side of 9th avenue where it belongs and the whole of Farley converted to better uses.
But I have no doubt about this, Moynihan is dead, and it's dead because of Silver. Infact I think the whole concept of a new Penn Station is also dead. Whatever happens now will be based on moving the MSG and putting commercial towers at its place. Commercial interests always prevail in NY.
It is not dead -- Silver's non-appearance at the PACB on Friday simply delayed the vote on "Plan A" -- there was no quorum as required so a vote could not be taken.
If Silver had appeared and voted NO then "Plan A" would have been rejected (aka dead).
This is smart move on Silver's part and forces those involved to reveal their plans for the entire MSG / Farley site -- plans that they clearly have worked on, as the ideas surrounding "Plan B" have been discussed (although not yet made available either to the officials responsible for oversight or to the public).
There is no plan B, whatever plan they have is obviously NOT anywhere close to being finished or they would have shown it to the public already. It take years to finalize designs especially ones involving whole blocks of prime real estate.
Silver didnt show up to the vote because he didnt want to look bad in the papers.
We'll see ...
No one has asked for a full-blown plan (with an EIS), ready to be shown to the public. That is an exaggeration by Gargano. What was requested was more details on the larger plan, especially the financing.
If the tactic is not understood, not showing up actually makes you look bad in the papers.
The project will happen. As Silver suggested, the funding isn't going anywhere. I also agree that he was wrong on the stadium, but as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Silver is right on this one, the proposal is just incomplete. If anything, the developers should have waited until this was approved to start showing presentations of the larger plan, or at least shown the presentation to Silver, Bruno, and Pataki.
Silver is also right about another issue:
We already have the (beautifully) planned PATH terminal Downtown that essentially will be a NJ commuter terminal. As NJ Transit will be the only tenant of the Farlery conversion, the plan as it is presented now will be the same thing. I'm for the larger plan, if we're going to make the effort to improve at all."It has become increasingly difficult to understand the lack of an explanation as to why we are not moving ahead with the broader plan for Moynihan Station.
Under the proposal for phase one presented to the Assembly for approval, only commuters from out of state would benefit from a new facility. We need to move ahead with phase two in order to ensure that Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North, Amtrak and subway riders are all afforded an updated, safe and modern transportation facility. As the proposal stands now, with all the transportation benefits going to non-New Yorkers, I cannot support it."
NY Sun
Pataki, Silver Spar Over Moynihan Station's Future
October 17, 2006
Governor Pataki and Speaker Sheldon Silver sparred yesterday over the future of Moynihan Station at a press event to celebrate a ground breaking for the expansion of the Javits Convention Center.
Final approval of the $900 million Moynihan Station project to convert the Farley Post Office building into a transit hub was delayed again last week by Mr. Silver.Yesterday, Mr. Silver said that he would not approve Moynihan Station until it contained a grander plan to build a new Madison Square Garden in the back of the post office and renovate the existing Penn Station. Mr. Pataki compared Penn Station to a "subterranean rat passage" and urged Mr. Silver to approve the plan for Moynihan Station that will come before him at a Wednesday meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board.
Messrs.Pataki and Silver, along with Mayor Bloomberg and City Council speaker Christine Quinn were on hand yesterday to announce the start of construction on the $1.68 billion plan to increase and expand the Javits Center, which is expected to be completed by 2010.
— Staff Reporter of the Sun
NY Post
DOLANS BEHIND BID TO DERAIL STATION: STATE
By TOM TOPOUSIS
October 17, 2006
Gov. Pataki's economic-development czar yesterday blasted Madison Square Garden's owners for blocking approval of the $900 million Moynihan train station, charging that they want the Farley Post Office site for a new sports complex that would be built for free.
"I think there are some aggressive postures or action being taken by Madison Square Garden where they're looking for a free arena within the Farley building," said Charles Gargano, chairman of the Empire State Development Corp., referring to Jim and Charles Dolan, who own Cablevision and the Garden.
Gargano, who is spearheading the station project, said the Dolans are behind state Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver's refusal to approve the conversion of the post office into a new train terminal linked to Penn Station.
"There's no question," Gargano said of their role in blocking the project.
The Moynihan plan is due to go before the state's Public Authority Control Board tomorrow. Silver, Pataki and Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno each control a vote on the three-member board, which must reach unanimous decisions for projects to go forward.
Silver, who last year lined up with the Dolans to block a proposed West Side football stadium, has yet to signal that he's ready to back the project.
Yesterday, Silver continued to insist that he will support a Moynihan station plan only when all its pieces are presented together.
But Gargano said there is no reason to delay approval of the train station plan to wait for a second phase that could be considered later.
"The excuses are silly," he said.
Silver, Pataki, Gargano and Mayor Bloomberg were together at the groundbreaking for the Javits Convention Center expansion yesterday, where the governor and speaker traded mild jabs over the Farley project.
Pataki, pointing out the limited space at the current convention center, said, "This, like the current excuse for a Penn Station, is not worthy of this city."
Silver shot back: "When the plan for the Moynihan station is the project before us, we will approve a first-class Moynihan station."
The current plan to convert Farley into a train station does not include the arena proposal, which has been put forward by Cablevision and a tandem of developers that won the right to redevelop Farley as a train station and mega-commercial complex.
Gargano said the arena component, which also includes a major overhaul of the current Penn Station and construction of office towers where the Garden now stands, could be considered later as a second phase of the project.
Gargano said he believes Cablevision's deal would land them a new $750 million arena paid for by developers anxious for the air rights to build 7 million square feet of office towers over Penn Station, where the arena is now located.
Barry Watkins, a spokesman for the Garden, declined to comment.
James Dolan
Gargano ^^^ "thinks" and "believes" all sorts of dastardly sh*t, but doesn't offer any proof.
Gargano himself is not necessarily deserving of the public trust -- but sure has proven himself to be an A+ crony ...
btw: Where / What is Plan B?
Fess up, Charlie ...
You know what I don't even care anymore, this project is a joke and this whole deal is a joke. Even if they build the Moynihan now (which they won't) it has lost all it's luster to me. The only reason I cared in the first place is because I've seen (I bought the great books) on the old Penn Station and really was inspired by it. I don't feel that Moynihan restores even a fraction of the old stations timeless architecture, it's just a box with Doric Columns.
All the parties here have disgraced themselves by attacking eachother and not working together to build a great project for New York.
I thought we had already clarified that. Plan B is not a plan at all; it's only Silver's description of the MSG/New Penn Station/Office Towers proposal.
Moynihan can and should proceed as planned, for one main reason:
No one is considering tearing the Post Office down and building either a new arena or office towers there. The landmark building will remain, and should be put to better use as a train station.
It has taken - how many? 10? - years to get just the Moynihan station fully planned, funded, and ready to start construction. It should proceed as planned. If Dolan wants to negotiate a deal with the developers to move, and complete a blockbuster air rights deal, then they'll do it on their own schedule. Otherwise, this will get killed - just as the West Side Stadium did - and it will be a long time before anyone is willing to approach the topic again.
I can understand your distrust of Gargano, but Silver's no better. It is almost painfully obvious that he does not have the city's interests in mind. He is primarily concerned with his district, and will help out anyone who can throw a wrench into Midtown West's expansion. In this case, it's Dolan.
To put it more bluntly: Gargano wants to get something done for the city, and Silver doesn't. I vote for Gargano.
Actually, it's not that silly at all. This is what kills Gargano's credibility. There's no (fiscally responsible) way you can build Moynihan and decide to add Phase 2 in the future. Although the train station and the MSG annex are seperated, they share crucial connections such as the intermodal hall and numerous service lines. You can't build a multi-million dollar intermodal hall just to have it demolished 3-5 years down the road to make room for MSG. That would just be idiotic. If there is even a possibility of a Phase 2 augmentation, that'll require drastic revisions to the current Moynihan design which is ready for construction. It defeats the entire point.
Upon careful consideration, I would have to (reluctantly) admit that Silver's reasons are justified. Either Gargano is feeding false information to the public or he himself is uninformed of the technicalities of the situation.
Last edited by Vengineer; October 17th, 2006 at 03:29 PM.
This is all about Pataki's desparation to get this project off the ground before he leaves office, so that he can claim credit for it. Gargano is just a Pataki mouthpiece. Unfortunately for the Guv, a far better plan has come along and it is going to take some time to work out the details. We;ve waited this long for this project, so let's wait a little longer and get it done right for future generations.
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