New Penn Station (Moynihan Station)

[NYCDOC]

I agree with Eugenious. This entire project is really pathetic and I'm actuall glad to see it in the process of falling apart as the conversion of the post office that has been proposed is seriously lacking. True it is better than the existing Penn Station, but is that what NYers should settle with?

And even worse than the proposed new Penn Station is the suggestion of using the annex for a new MSG! I can't believe anyone would even consider this. It really is like repeating the same mistakes of the past. I walked on the ninth avenue side of the annex a few weeks ago and was shocked to find that it is really as nice as the eighth avenue exterior. Why would we want to combine a new stadium into this structure? I just can't understand it. Sure moving MSG would be great, but there certainly are better optionsn than just dropping it into this classic, beautiful building.

So I'm glad this garbage deal is falling through and hopefully braver politicians will step forward in the coming years to work on a plan that really has as it center ambition the creation of GREAT public places.

[NYguy]

I thought we had already clarified that. Plan B is not a plan at all; it's only Silver's description of the MSG/New Penn Station/Office Towers proposal.

Apparently it wasn't clarified. Plan B is the plan that the developers have been showing to various people in the business community to gather support, which they have gotten. It involves relocating Madison Square Garden to the back (9th Ave) side of the Farley building, giving the developers an extra 5.8 msf of development rights on the Garden site.

But more importantly, it will also renovate and open up the actual Penn Station itself - not just the planned NJ Transit terminal that the current plan calls for. The coice is obvious, or it certainly should be for New Yorkers. And that's coming from someone who uses NJ Transit often.

"It has become increasingly difficult to understand the lack of an explanation as to why we are not moving ahead with the broader plan for Moynihan Station.

Under the proposal for phase one presented to the Assembly for approval, only commuters from out of state would benefit from a new facility. We need to move ahead with phase two in order to ensure that Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North, Amtrak and subway riders are all afforded an updated, safe and modern transportation facility. As the proposal stands now, with all the transportation benefits going to non-New Yorkers, I cannot support it."

Silver is the only one providing the sound argument on this one.

[NYguy]

NY Post

DOLANS BEHIND BID TO DERAIL STATION: STATE

By TOM TOPOUSIS
October 17, 2006

Gov. Pataki's economic-development czar yesterday blasted Madison Square Garden's owners for blocking approval of the $900 million Moynihan train station, charging that they want the Farley Post Office site for a new sports complex that would be built for free.....

Yesterday, Silver continued to insist that he will support a Moynihan station plan only when all its pieces are presented together.

.....Gargano said the arena component, which also includes a major overhaul of the current Penn Station and construction of office towers where the Garden now stands, could be considered later as a second phase of the project.

Gargano said he believes Cablevision's deal would land them a new $750 million arena paid for by developers anxious for the air rights to build 7 million square feet of office towers over Penn Station, where the arena is now located.

We have the makings of another West Side showdown tomorrow. This time it's Pataki who's willing to throw the whole thing out the window...

(Crain's NY)

Pataki throws down the gauntlet on Moynihan

by Anne Michaud
October 17, 2006

In what appears to be a final show-down over the Moynihan Station rail terminal, Gov. George Pataki issued a letter saying that if the project is not approved on Wednesday, he will recommend tossing out the current plan at the risk of losing $130 million in promised federal funding.

The $900 million project to expand overcrowded Pennsylvania Station has become a battleground between the outgoing Republican governor and Democratic Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who holds the deciding vote on the Public Authorities Control Board.

The PACB is scheduled to meet Wednesday afternoon.

"Please be advised that [tomorrow] ... is the deadline," Mr. Pataki wrote in a letter to Mr. Silver. The state "will have no realistic choice but to invalidate the existing award .... It would erode the confidence of our state and federal partners, it will put at risk existing funds, result in the expiration of our option to purchase the Farley Building and will betray the memory of the project namesake."

The governor was referring to the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who championed converting the James A. Farley Post Office building into a rail terminal to relieve crowding at Penn Station. The station was designed to accommodate 200,000 passenger trips a day but now handles more than twice that.

In recent days, Mr. Silver has challenged the project, saying that it would only benefit New Jersey and Pennsylvania commuters. Mr. Pataki argues in his letter that the main beneficiaries would include subway and Long Island Rail Road travelers.

Instead of the Moynihan Station project, Mr. Silver says he wants the state to elaborate on another proposal, not yet drawn in detail, which would relocate Madison Square Garden, open Penn Station's ceiling to daylight and allow commercial and residential towers at the current MSG site. This more ambitious plan would create a central concourse for rail and subway commuters.

In his weekly radio address last Friday, Mayor Michael Bloomberg also urged passing the current Moynihan Station plan to pave the way for the larger development eventually.

"The truth of the matter is that Plan A we could get going right now, and it would be great for this city," Mr. Bloomberg said. "It should not have anything to do with who is governor. It should not have anything to do with who is in which party."

[NYguy]

NY Post




Tomorrow the state's Public Authorities Control Board - meaning Gov. Pataki, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno - will vote on the Moynihan station proposal for a glamorous new train depot and glass dome atop the Farley Post Office.

Silver is expected to veto the plan, thus sending it into limbo.

The designated developers, a partnership of Related Cos. and Vornado, have proposed a much larger scheme that would move Madison Square Garden onto the Farley site and create new office towers on the current Garden site.

Because some have suggested that the developers' zeal for the larger "Plan B" means their heart was never really in the original plan, and might even pull out if they can't do the bigger one, we wondered: are they still on board if the PACB were to approve the more simple scheme?

Howard Rubenstein, the spokesman for both Related and Vornado, said, "Their preference is certainly for the larger plan, but they would certainly go ahead with the smaller plan if it is approved."

[tmg]

(Crain's NY)

Pataki throws down the gauntlet on Moynihan

by Anne Michaud
October 17, 2006

In what appears to be a final show-down over the Moynihan Station rail terminal, Gov. George Pataki issued a letter saying that if the project is not approved on Wednesday, he will recommend tossing out the current plan at the risk of losing $130 million in promised federal funding.

Well, if Pataki wants "slash-and-burn" to be his legacy, I guess that's his prerogative. Too lazy to actually lead the way toward development, he prefers to tear down the work of others as he storms out of office in a snit.

Could he please consider taking the JFK-Downtown Boondoggle down with him as well?

[Eugenious]

I see two issues if Silver votes no.

1. State and NYC lose fed funding (not 100% on this one).

2. The Dolans and the developers will want the whole Farley site to themselves thereby destroying it (save the Doric columns).

I'm pretty sure about the second one. Can you say deja vu all over again.

If they do approve it coming to a compromise (no chance of this one).

1. NYC gets a mediocre train station for nj commuters that looks realy awesome from eigth avenue side.

2. Something actually gets done for the city.

Ofcourse the chances of the second happening are about as high as the Detroit Tigers winning the World Series.

In other words nill.

[pianoman11686]

Apparently it wasn't clarified. Plan B is the plan that the developers have been showing to various people in the business community to gather support, which they have gotten. It involves relocating Madison Square Garden to the back (9th Ave) side of the Farley building, giving the developers an extra 5.8 msf of development rights on the Garden site.

But more importantly, it will also renovate and open up the actual Penn Station itself - not just the planned NJ Transit terminal that the current plan calls for. The coice is obvious, or it certainly should be for New Yorkers. And that's coming from someone who uses NJ Transit often.

Silver is the only one providing the sound argument on this one.

That's not what I was saying. Those of us that have been following this project know what Related/Vornado have proposed. In fact, I've alluded to it in some of my own posts. The issue at hand is whether that is an entirely different proposal (i.e., Plan B), or just an expansion/addition to the current plan for Moynihan. I believe it's the latter, and that Silver is responsible for creating the confusion by forcing the issue of choosing between two plans. Do you really think Gargano, Bloomberg, Pataki, and, most importantly, the developers, are wrong when they say that the current Moynihan can go forward as planned, and then the grander aspects of the MSG plan can be worked out later? I don't think so.

As for the NJ vs. NY argument: it's a crock, and you know it. The Path Terminal being built downtown, which costs more than twice as much as Moynihan, will serve only New Jersey commuters as well, and a much smaller number of them. Where's the outrage from Silver there? Oh wait, I know: there's no reason to get upset, because money's being poured in to his district. If Moynihan were not such an integral step in opening up Hudson Yards and the far West Side to commercial development, he would have much less reason to oppose it. That's not to say anything about his private connections to Cablevision.

[jp1]

sorry, to quibble, but the Tigers will win it all. ROAR !!!

[NYguy]

I believe that Silver is responsible for creating the confusion

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that it was Silver presenting the plans for this "alternate" MSG development. For some reason I thought it was the developers. Must have something to do with the fact that I'm right, and it was the developers.

Do you really think Gargano, Bloomberg, Pataki, and, most importantly, the developers, are wrong when they say that the current Moynihan can go forward as planned, and then the grander aspects of the MSG plan can be worked out later? I don't think so.

I really don't give a rats a$$ whether it can go forward as "planned", because the fact of the matter is that's not what the developers are planning to build - you know it, I know it, and most importantly Silver knows it. To pretend otherwise is foolish.

As for the NJ vs. NY argument: it's a crock, and you know it. The Path Terminal being built downtown, which costs more than twice as much as Moynihan, will serve only New Jersey commuters as well, and a much smaller number of them. Where's the outrage from Silver there?

I know Penn Station very well, and Silver is very accurate when he says turning the Farley building into a NJ Transit terminal only benefits residents of one state. Everyone knows and has complained for years about the current conditions at Penn Station. Now is not the time to pretend they don't exists. And your "two wrongs make a right" argument is ridiculous.

It would be foolish of Pataki to think Silver is bluffing when he says he will not approve the project at this time, especially considering he was the one who sabotoged the Westside stadium.

[NYguy]

NY Sun

Pataki Tells Silver He's Down To Last Chance on Station
Sides May Have To Start From Scratch

By DAVID LOMBINO
October 18, 2006


Governor Pataki says he will trash his $900 million plan to build Moynihan Station if Speaker Sheldon Silver does not back the project today at scheduled vote in Albany.

In a letter yesterday to Mr. Silver, the governor said that if the speaker rejects the project before him today at a meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board, the state would "invalidate the existing award" and start a new station plan from scratch.

That would mean two of the city's most powerful developers, Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Companies, could be forced to compete again for the project in an open bidding process, and that the state and city would lose some of the government funds it has culled together to remake the Farley Post Office building on Eighth Avenue between 31st and 33rd streets into a Grand Central-like transit hub.

The governor does not favor that course of action, writing that a new plan "would erode the confidence of our state and federal partners, it will put at risk existing funds, result in the expiration of our option to purchase the Farley Building and will betray the memory of the project namesake."

The Moynihan Station project seemed to be sailing toward final approval after eight years of planning.Earlier this year, though, the selected developers, Related and Vornado, introduced a more ambitious plan, known as Plan B, to move Madison Square Garden into the west side of the Farley complex from its current location over Penn Station, renovate the existing Penn Station, and build three commercial towers on top of it. Sources familiar with that plan say it would require about $1 billion in public subsidies.

Mr. Silver says he prefers Plan B, and, leveraging his vote on the Public Authorities Control Board, he has delayed the final approval of the state plan for more than two months. Albany Democrats have criticized the governor for attempting to rush through a mediocre Moynihan Station project before he leaves office at the end of the year, a move they say is designed to bolster his legacy.

State officials have said that Mr. Silver has been swayed by Madison Square Garden officials, who are holding out for about $1 billion in public subsidies for the large plan to renovate Penn Station. Madison Square Garden employs lobbyist Patricia Lynch, a former chief of staff to Mr. Silver.

A spokeswoman for Mr. Silver, Eileen Larrabee, said yesterday that the speaker does not agree with many of the statements in Mr. Pataki's letter.

A spokesman for the developers, publicist Howard Rubenstein, said in a statement that the state could not void the current agreement with Vornado and Related.

"Our development agreement with the State unambiguously remains in effect regardless of the current outcome at PACB," Mr. Rubenstein said. "Our agreement and our RFP response before it pertain to both phases of the project, and the project must and will continue for the good of all New Yorkers."

On Friday, during his weekly radio address, Mayor Bloomberg said the state plan should be approved, and that the larger plan faces several significant challenges.

"The city is going to have a very tough time doing Plan B. I hope we get help from the state, but the truth of the matter is that Plan A we could get going right now and it would be great for this city," Mr. Bloomberg said.

[NYguy]

In a letter yesterday to Mr. Silver, the governor said that if the speaker rejects the project before him today at a meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board, the state would "invalidate the existing award" and start a new station plan from scratch.

That would mean two of the city's most powerful developers, Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Companies, could be forced to compete again for the project in an open bidding process...

A spokesman for the developers, publicist Howard Rubenstein, said in a statement that the state could not void the current agreement with Vornado and Related.

"Our development agreement with the State unambiguously remains in effect regardless of the current outcome at PACB," Mr. Rubenstein said. "Our agreement and our RFP response before it pertain to both phases of the project, and the project must and will continue for the good of all New Yorkers."

Good. Now let Pataki pick a fight with the developers, this isn't a big enough mess as it is...

[lofter1]

A spokesman for the developers, publicist Howard Rubenstein, said in a statement that the state could not void the current agreement with Vornado and Related.

"Our development agreement with the State unambiguously remains in effect regardless of the current outcome at PACB," Mr. Rubenstein said. "Our agreement and our RFP response before it pertain to both phases of the project, and the project must and will continue for the good of all New Yorkers."

If this is true then Pataki was overseeing one of the great mistakes in NYC real estate history ...

No wonder he's worried about his legacy and now playing desperate.

[TREPYE]

NY Sun

Pataki Tells Silver He's Down To Last Chance on Station
State officials have said that Mr. Silver has been swayed by Madison Square Garden officials, who are holding out for about $1 billion in public subsidies for the large plan to renovate Penn Station. Madison Square Garden employs lobbyist Patricia Lynch, a former chief of staff to Mr. Silver.

This is discusting! We know that most politicians don't have enough backbone to shun away from lobbists. But Silver, can you at least try to be a little more subliminal about the fact that you are a Madison Square Garden whore?? Unbelievable, this guy is no better than the ones that were walking around in 42nd St a few years ago.

[Eugenious]

They need to get an independent investigation going in how this whole deal got out of hand and became a mess that it is before it escalates into a major wazoo for Pataki and the city.

[kliq6]

Cablevison is with Vornado on this deal blocker, they meaning Vornado want the larger project so they can win those major air rights, they should just do the station and then deal with a possible MSG deal later.

Its funny that Silver says no to Monyihan because it will only help NJ residents and not the city, yet he aligns himself with a firm that is based outside the city and besides the Knicks have no true NYC employee presence.

he should just be honest and say he will vote know because this project wont help Chambers Street