Aside from the Guggenheim, would someone please point out a building in NYC built between the years of 1950 and 1975 that was not basically a box?
And aside from the classic boxes like the Seagrams, Lever House, CBS, the Ford Foundation.... name a few that anyone could be passionate about.
Yes it's true, at the moment, architecture in NYC is worse that it's ever been... AND at the same time, it's better than it's been in decades.
We've got the Sam Chang/Kaufman/Macklowe crap and we've also got Frank Gehry, Herzog & de Meuron, Jean Nouvel, Foster , Richard Meir, Renzo Piano, and others.
We've got beautiful stuff being torn down, recladded, butchered up.... and at the same time, exquisite restorations and re-use.
C'mon Vengineer... you really read the forum? The armchair critics here also regularly PRAISE new stuff being built. Wanna see the threads? Why are you leaving that out?
And what's the difference between standing around a water cooler and trashing the new Penn Station, the new Buick or the new movie that opened last night? It's done all the time.
It's kind of hard to believe that someone "heavily involved in the design process of some of the major projects in New York City.".... has skin sooooo thin that a tiny group commenters on a forum plays havoc with his self-esteem.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=90520201&size=l
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Last edited by Fabrizio; May 18th, 2007 at 08:47 AM.
I agree with this statement, i know it gets a bit depressing around here and i wish also it could stop, the negativity does spilll over from SOM and kaufman into projects that actually do have potential to be great, but i think your post for post you give this forum a great deal and i hope you stick around for those of us who believe we can still build great projectsOriginally Posted by sfenn1117
Because its a little bit more personal. When all the projects you work hard on constantly get criticized for "being the worst f*ckin design," it gets very irritating. Its like working on a project that your boss tells you "it can always be better" but you won't increase my budget!
Vengineer, if you leave, I'm sorry to hear that. But I suggest you stick around. If none of us cared, we wouldn't jump to this thread every time there's a new post......especially from you! And if no one appreciates the effort you put in....well....."f*ck 'em." What more can I say?
Vengineer - dude, you should stick around. You are one of the few posters that I actually would read. You provided some of the best info out there. Thanks.
Now all I have to look forward to is every residential forum turning into a discussion about what type of counter top people are installing. ["condo227: did you get steel or concrete bla bla bla...I have 1 million dollars...bla bla bla"]
Maybe you'll post at ssp or ssc...
Vengineer, you write eloquently on why those who build in NYC are forced to reduce their ambitions.
I assume that you've been posting here because you and your associates want *higher* standards in design, and you know that this forum is one of those places where pressure can build for better work. (Better work, for example, at a site that the lead architect has described as the world's greatest building project.)
Well, you've done us a great service in your time here. I wish I'd seen your most recent post -- hell, I could use an RSS feed of just your info. Hope you'll continue here, and that you won't let a bit of overenthusiasm for spreading your renderings around get to you.
A Random Sampler:
15CPW: Praised
100 11th: mixed but lot's of praise
NYTimes Tower: mixed... now largely praised.
40 Mercer: praised
290 Mulberry: praised
Beekman Street Tower (Gehry): some reservations but lots of praise
101 Warren Street: mixed but praised
Hearst Tower: praised
40 Bond: praised
400 Park Avenue South: praised
InterActiveCorp (Gehry on the Hudson): praised
1 York Tribeca : praised
25 Bond: praised
Vengineer what happened? Did some forumers get under your skin with some remarks? Please let me say sorry for that. Maybe now you can come back! Don't leave us! You have been a very good informative forumer for all of us! Please I beg you not to leave us! Yeah I know your stuff was critisize. But that is what people do here. So don't take it too personal. See other projects. But your type of work and your inside information is totally amazing.
Nothing to critisize about that.
In a way, they all have the same dynamic in common: artistic ambitions being sacrificed to budget pressures and fiscal realities. The difference is, I've never heard about it directly from automotive designers or movie directors. On this site, we hear from first-handers quite often. Part of what makes it special.
I read it differently. It's not so much about self-esteem, because Vengineer was speaking on behalf of his entire profession. I think it's more a reaction to unexplained negativity - something you see a lot of on the forum and very little of elsewhere. Other people have made observations on this too.It's kind of hard to believe that someone "heavily involved in the design process of some of the major projects in New York City.".... has skin sooooo thin that a tiny group commenters on a forum plays havoc with his self-esteem.
Really??? I pass by the building daily, and I must say that, other than the Marriott Marquis, it is really the most unsightly building in all of the Times Square area -- a prime example of what you get when you let your architectural critic pick your HQ design.
Agreed.
I would rather Vengineer stay than go. However, if the choice is between biting our tongues on architectural design issues so as not to upset the man, versus the freedom of speech to criticize any and all designs, I would opt for the latter.
Although I am sorry to hear you are going, I also have to comment here as well.
I think just about anything going up there would e an improvement over what is there now. For other people to say that it will somehow rob the city of something is rediculous.
That does not mean that I approve of the economical "glass boxes" that are going up all over.
I know why they are going up. I am an engineer myself, and I am a bit dissapointed that so few people realize the basics in design that would allow them todo some different things with their structures that would still be fiscally feasable.
But we still get owners that want waterfalls and architects that want open atriums until they see how much steel and concrete it would take to accomplish it, then the wallet takes over and reduces it back down from an expensive expresso back to a decent, but ordinary cup of joe.
Veng, do not take it the wrong way. Many here like development and like seeing things go up around the city. It just gets hard when you see the same thing again and again.
I know how you feel when you say that you may have worked on this and that and to hear criticism, but at least you are getting attension. Previously I was working on school buildings, offices and home depots. Places people have never heard of or seen.
I had very little pride in what I did. It gets hard.
But it is also hard, as I have said, to have something that people can actually see and hear all of their criticism.....
I hope you have not gotten too burnt out from the negativity and decide to come back for a few posts here and there. If not, we might end up running into ech other one of these days.
Until then! Have a good one!
I hope you change your mind. Don't let the incessant whining and pompousness here get you down. With regard to anything new or a change in the status quo, there will be any number of people who dislike it. Of those there are the ones who use their contrarianism as their identity. Just ignore them.
Your posts are informative and are not fluff or solely opinions usually. That's always a plus. Stick around, there are too many exciting things going on in the city.
Can we get the thread back onto the topic of Moynihan/Penn Station, please?
This is a very intriguing project, but I have two questions that no politician or editorialists addresses. Perhaps people on the forum could. Obviously, the current Penn Station is terrible, but I don't see how a new one improves the situation. Here are my 2 issues:
1. Subway access -- The current Penn Station is nestled between 2 vital subway lines, and one block away from another 2 lines. The A/C/E provides access to the East side, and the 1/2/3 gives access to the West side. The new Penn Station would have access to 1 subway line, and be within one block of another 1 line. Essentially, half the access, and no direct access to the north West side.
2. Traffic - NJT recently invested $140 million to revamp their portion of the terminal - will this investment go to waste? Also, LIRR will (at some point) be redirected to GCS. Given the reduced traffic, and the investment already made, why do we need a new station?
I understand the viewpoint that we should have a beautiful station, but other projects, such as another Hudson tunnel, 2nd avenue line, etc seem far more beneficial.
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