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Thread: Fulton Center

  1. #46

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    Blah architecture. I suppose today, officially, One New York Place is dead!

  2. #47

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    It was DOA if you ask me.

    I quite like the dome but think the integration with the historic building next door could have been better.

  3. #48

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    1 NY Place...that was the extrememely tall one right?

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern
    Blah architecture. I suppose today, officially, One New York Place is dead!
    It may be dead on this site, but it would be even better if the city condemned, via eminent domain, the shit across the street from the transit center on the west side of Broadway (in addition to World Golf) and let Davis develop 1 NY Place there. There are many parcels of shit on that site, which are presumably owned by many different people, so the city's intervention is important to expediting the redevelopment of that block.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern
    Blah architecture. I suppose today, officially, One New York Place is dead!
    I wouldn't say it was dead - it was a seperate proposal from the transit center.

    The only version of the 90-story proposal that we saw was not designed with the transit center in place - a tall and narrow building on a broad base (although the developer said it could be built above the transit terminal).

    Its better to have the transit center open, to allow the daylight in. But the rest of the block, and the rest of Fulton St will still be redeveloped for more residential and cultural space. There will be another tower to rise on the square block next to the transit terminal, 1 NY Place or not...


  6. #51

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    Is it conceivable that the air rights from the Fulton terminal could be transferred to the eventual construction of 1NYP? That would allow a much taller tower to rise there.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    So the criteria for everything is bare-bones utility?

    Stated at the PATH station unveiling: "We don't build grand anymore?"
    It's not the only criteria, but at $750M it should be one of them. The difference here is the PATH station in an empty hole in the ground; it won't result in a 100 businesses being evicted.

  8. #53
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    About 100 businesses or more were forcibly evicted from the World Trade Center for obvious reasons. The new station will have retail space, and I'm sure that many of the displaced businesses will have priority in leasing the new space.

    New York is too built-up to make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, so to speak, albeit with the use of a very cliché saying. Hudson Yards, Downtown Brooklyn, the Nets Arena, the Second Avenue Subway...these are just a few of the myriad developments that involve getting rid of, evicting, displacing or destroying something that was already there. Sometimes we need to look beyond short-term drawbacks and embrace the long-term benefits.

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC
    It's not the only criteria, but at $750M it should be one of them.
    Umm, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the $750 million for the entire project, not just the building?

  10. #55

  11. #56
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    Alternatively, this money could form the down payment for a JFK/LIRR link to Downtown
    Without a new station complex where would the LIRR trains go? How would passengers access the trains below ground, the LIRR cannot use Subway tracks or platforms. The new Fulton Street terminal facilitates the building of a LIRR connection to Downtown, without a terminal the LIRR has no place to go.

    And couple that $750 million with the $860 million to be spent on a West Street tunnel (which provides no public transportation benefit) and the $400 million to be spent on the South Street ferry terminal renovation (which, like the Fulton Street renovation, doesn't really quicken anyone's commute), and you start to have some real money with which New York could make some grand transportation improvements.
    The 9-11 money was earmarked to improve, update, expand or replace "existing" infastructure in Lower Manhattan.

    Not to build a new rail line to the Long Island Rail Road, it would be a huge uphill battle that would be a political hot potato in the era of "fleecing of America" news to use this money for other purposes.

    The media is already pouncing on the Liberty bond issue.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Quote Originally Posted by BPC
    It's not the only criteria, but at $750M it should be one of them.
    Umm, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the $750 million for the entire project, not just the building?
    I think that figue includes improved undergound connections, which (unlike the building) is something I would support , but I don't know how the $750M breaks down. Whatever the price, we're talking a lot of tax dollars for a pointless architectural showpiece that will have a devitalizing effect on Lower Manhattan. If you keep replacing vital New York streetscape with transit centers and stadia and set-back skyscrapers, eventually you end up in Atlanta.

  13. #58

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    I don't know why they built that ridiculous Grand Central Terminal. All that wasted space inside doesn't speed up anyone's commute. :roll:

    The underground work is extensive. It includes the concourse connection to the PATH. I remember reading a figure of $350 million. It may be here if you want to look for it.

    I don't see how a low-rise structure designed specifically for pedestrians, that encourages mass transit use, with added retail, will devitalize Lower Manhattan and make it like Atlanta. In Atlanta, it would be sited in a parking field.

  14. #59

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    New Fulton Transit Center Lets In the Light

    May 27, 2004


    A scale model of the planned Fulton Transit Center unveiled yesterday at the Center for Architecture

    A look at plans for the new Fulton Street Transit Center main entrance reveals a lofty, glass-over-steel cone that will open the station to day, inviting street light as far down as the 4/5 train platform. The design is a far cry from the dim, crowded station that currently serves nearly 300,000 riders a day with its 10 subway lines on five scattered platforms.

    The new layout is the product of many months of research, community outreach, and exhaustive engineering strategies by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's (MTA) design team, led by international architecture firm Grimshaw. It was unveiled yesterday as the MTA's top choice out of several similar blueprints presented in the draft environmental impact statement (EIS).

    "We want this structure to be iconic," said Andrew Whalley, the project's lead designer at Grimshaw, who presented the station's layout to the press and public at the Center for Architecture. Whalley explained that the goal of the $750 million design is to create a structure that is recognizable from both the interior and exterior -- and to that end, use of light is key. "Light helps you way-find. It helps you connect to the city," Whalley explained.

    The interior of the main entrance's conical structure is almost egg-shaped, allowing light to bounce between panes of glass and refract down to two levels below the street. Tentative plans for that space include retail shops and other amenities, and, potentially, restaurants or public balconies.

    Elsewhere, the new design sorts out the maze of ramps and passageways within the station itself and establishes a walkway under Dey Street. The much-anticipated underground link will connect Fulton Center trains with the R/W line at Cortlandt Street and the World Trade Center transportation hub -- home to the PATH and, eventually, a direct rail line to regional airports. The Dey Street walkway will have its own recognizable glass-and-steel entrance along Broadway.

    Whalley noted that the plan answers the Fulton Street station's top priorities -- ease of movement and reduced travel time -- by "rationalizing" the entire complex and using consistencies in design, such as easy-to-understand signage and both natural and artificial light.

    "There will be clear lines of sight throughout the system," he said. "And I think it will be a thing of great beauty when we've finished."

    Perhaps more important for commuters, the design opens up corridors between subway lines that will eliminate platform crowding (particularly along the 4/5 line) and, as a result, reduce train congestion.

    Most pleasing to those Lower Manhattanites most proud of the area's history may be the designers' crafty incorporation of the 115-year-old Corbin Building, which sits at the northeast corner of Broadway and John Street and will share the block with the station's towering main entrance. In the lead plan, the nine-story Corbin Building will be fully refurbished, with its ground and lower levels transformed into part of the new station's entryway.

    Designers also plan to restore the original Fulton Street station's mosaics and terra cotta tile work along the 4/5 line, again carefully reserving a place for century-old craftsmanship within the contemporary design.

    For the plan to move forward without major architectural changes, the MTA must acquire all of the real estate on Broadway between Fulton and John Streets, along with a select few other buildings that will likely be razed for the station's construction. Exact details, including timing for potential demolitions, are part of the forthcoming final EIS.

    The station's proposed designs are now officially open for discussion, with a public hearing on the draft EIS set for June 8. If the project's timing stays on schedule, start of construction on the new station could begin as soon as late 2004, with the station's grand opening in 2007.

    "We want this to be a destination," said Mysore Nagaraja, P.E., president of MTA Capital Construction. "After 2007 people are going to be saying, 'Meet me at the Fulton Transit Center.'"

    The public hearing will take place on Tuesday, June 8 at 2 Broadway, 20th floor, with an open house starting at 4:30 p.m. and the official hearing at 6 p.m. For more information visit www.mta.info/capconstr/fstc .


    Model shows a cross-section of the main entrance

    www.lowermanhattan.info

  15. #60

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