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Thread: 200 Chambers Street - Tribeca - Condo - by Costas Kondylis

  1. #46
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    When the existing office buildings downtown start to fill up, then there will be new office buildings. Most of the projects under construction in Midtown began before 9/11 and already have anchor tenants, some of which later pulled out of their deals (Arthur Anderson at XSq Tower) or scaled back the number of employees they were going to move in (CIBC). The emphasis currently is on residential, retail and culture for the time being, but in due time there will be office development. I'm still hopeful for the East River Plan.

  2. #47
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    Out of curisoty, our there any planned office devlopments dowtown that anyone knows of, is there really any space left besides those two lots and site 26 in BPC. And from what i know the east river plan has no commercial elements. When they ruled in favor of CB1 zoning the seaport area with heights only of 120 feet that killed that area off as well. WHats the plan for this East River area?

  3. #48
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    Yes, what exactly is going on with with the East River Plan?

    I have not heard much about it recently.

    And for sites where buildings can still go up...

    Where is the spot they are building/were going to build One New York Place?

    Also, Kliq, when was this Crazy Seaport rule put into effect, and is it concrete, or are there ways around it?

  4. #49
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    its concrete the Bloomberg Adminstration supported it. A few months back Howard Milstein wanted to build a 500 foot residnetial tower at 250 Water street, and Community Board 1 as always fought to blockit and restict building height, they won. nothing over 120 feet in a 18 block area. Pro business Bloomberg, bullshit

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    Until the 12 mil sq. ft. from the WTC is filled (including 7 WTC), no towers are going to be proposed, I would think. Who knows, but a lot will be coming to the market in the future.

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    If you really think that all those towers they are proposing wilactually be built at the WTC site, you must be in another city. WIth all the NIMBY's in Lower Manhattan and on CB1, be prepared for a 20 plus year fight to see even half thatsite developed.

  7. #52
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    I guess we'll see.

  8. #53

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    If you really think that all those towers they are proposing wilactually be built at the WTC site, you must be in another city.
    Statements like that, and yes they will or no they won't reponses are pointless - no one really knows with certainty what will happen.

    What can be said is that 12 million sq ft of office space is either being constructed or proposed. Don't expect office towers to pop up elsewhere in lower Manhattan unless demand improves.

    The Dept of City Planning website has a land use map in pdf. You may need Adobe Reader 6 (free download) to display it.

  9. #54
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    well chimp your right on everything but the 12 million sf number, thats what was lost, and another 2.5 million more has been lost with 90 west being converted and 130 liberty be demolished. All that is actually being proposed is about 8 million sf including building on the 130 Liberty site. Thats a net decrease of 6.5 million square feet and most of the freedom tower wil be open air space.

  10. #55

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    It is also pointless to take the situation back pre 09/11/01. What you have now is all this space being proposed in the presence of a high vacancy rate.

    If 90 West was not converted, it would be sitting abandoned, or worse, demolished.

    It is tunnel vision to think of Lower Manhattan as strictly a business district.

  11. #56
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    The first rendering I've seen of the Foster/Resnick/Tribeca apartment tower. There is plenty of opposition. Check out the article and another rendering here:

    http://tribecatrib.com

  12. #57

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    Downtown Express
    April 5, 2004

    Tribeca tower draws united opposition for divided reasons

    By Elizabeth O’Brien


    3-dimensional model of Resnick’s proposed 360’ tower on West St. beyond P.S. 234.

    Community members vented their long-standing objections to the 35-story residential tower planned for Chambers St. at a public hearing where they faced off with the developer and city officials.

    More than 300 people packed the P.S./I.S. 89 auditorium on March 30 for the hearing, required under the city’s formal review of the development. The city owns the lot known as 5C, bounded by Chambers, Warren and West Sts., and it plans to sell the land to developer Scott Resnick for the construction of a tower that neighbors fear will bring undue shadows and congestion to their community.

    Community Board 1 has lobbied for a 100-foot reduction in the building’s size and the expansion of the planned community center from 18,000 square feet to 40,000. Tuesday’s hearing highlighted the split between those who favor lowering the building at all costs and those who believe that an expanded community center should take precedence in negotiations with the developer and the city.

    “My point is that the land is presently owned by the citizens of this city, and we need to give back something to the local community as well as to the citizens of New York City,” said Bob Townley, director of the youth services provider Manhattan Youth and a big proponent of the expanded community center.

    Manhattan Youth workers passed out white painter’s hats to people entering the hearing, and the caps contributed to the pep rally atmosphere in the auditorium. The audience cheered community speakers and heckled the developer and his associates.

    Some believed the focus on the community center made people lose sight of the building’s considerable height. Before Sept. 11, 2001, the 5C proposal called for a 135-foot building, but the urban renewal plan that limited its height expired in 2002, clearing the way for a taller development. The original plans included an 18,000-square-foot community center within the 135-foot building.

    Susan Sonz, the 20-year manager of Washington Market Park, protested what planners called the “significant” shadows that would engulf the park after construction of the 5C project. From May through August, much of the popular Tribeca park would be in shadow from 2:45 p.m. to 6:18 p.m., according to the environmental impact study prepared by the developer’s contractors.

    “We cannot trade this quality of life for a community center,” Sonz said.

    Others agreed.

    “While it’s very tempting to say we need a community center, so let’s agree to this, it’s really not about that,” said Bernard D’Orazio, a member of Community Board 1 and president of Save our Space, a community group against large-scale development. “Let’s be patient. Let’s oppose this. This is the wrong project at the wrong time. Let’s stand united.”

    D’Orazio said that after 9/11, the city dropped the cost of the 5C lot by 30 percent. Resnick declined to comment on the price of the land; a spokesperson for the city Economic Development Corporation said she could not comment because the city was still in negotiations with the developer.

    City Councilmember Alan Gerson, whose district includes the site, said after the meeting that it was not likely the community would have to choose between a smaller building and a larger community center. As part of the city’s Uniform Land Use Review Procedure, the City Council and the Department of City Planning will vote on the proposed 5C project, while Community Board 1 and the Manhattan Borough President each make advisory recommendations. If the City Council rejects the plan, the proposal goes back to City Planning, Gerson said.

    Unless the developer reduces the size of the building and increases the community space, “I’m absolutely confident that proposal isn’t going anywhere,” Gerson said.

    Still, in his remarks at the hearing Gerson stressed the importance of a united front.

    “The worst thing that can happen is for this community to divide into two camps,” Gerson said.

    Resnick declined to say whether he would make specific alterations to his plan as a result of the public hearing.

    City officials also did not promise any changes.

    “We do our best to work with the community, the developer and all stakeholders to come up with a plan that’s acceptable,” said Janel Patterson, a spokesperson for the Economic Development Corporation.

    One alternative to expanding the community space in site 5C, Gerson and others have said, is to put a larger recreation center on site 5B across the street. The city-owned 5B lot, bounded by Warren and Murray Sts. on the north and south and Greenwich and West Sts. on the east and west, is more than double the size of 5C.

    City officials have said that the 5B development would likely include a residential tower taller than 5C, and community members have expressed concern about the combined impact of the two buildings. Edward Minskoff, the developer of 5B, declined to comment on whether he would consider including a community center on the site.

    “The overall conceptual plan has not been formulated,” Minskoff said in a telephone interview.

    George Olsen, a member of C.B. 1., also favors putting a larger community center on 5B. He said he is not optimistic that Resnick will alter his plans for 5C, since the developer did not respond to suggestions in the months leading up to the public hearing.

    The day after the hearing, Olsen said, “We’ve asked and we’ve asked and we’ve asked… and what did they present last night?”

    Elizabeth@DowntownExpress.com

    Copyright 2004 Community Media LLC.

  13. #58
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    Well, it's a nice building.

  14. #59
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    "...but the urban renewal plan that limited its height expired in 2002..." -from article above.

    :x Get over it already it's limitations has expired!!! built the thing.

    Also what is wrong with having a shadow in the park? It will be great in the summer time trying to get away from the heat.

  15. #60

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    Downtown Express
    April 30, 2004

    EDITORIAL

    Even 250 feet is too tall at Site 5C

    Let’s count the reasons why development of the vacant lot behind P.S. 234, know as Site 5C, should be used to benefit the public. First, it is city-owned land. Second, as one Community Board 1 member, Rick Landman, has pointed out, the city forced people off of the land over 40 years ago to implement an urban renewal plan that it never fulfilled. Third, the city’s handpicked developer for Site 5C, Scott Resnick, is well on his way to getting $200 million in tax-free Liberty Bonds that were intended to help rebuild Lower Manhattan into a better place after 9/11.

    Resnick’s building at about 360 feet is too tall for the residential neighborhood in Tribeca and will cast too many shadows in the nearby park spaces in Battery Park City and Tribeca. In its April resolution, Community Board 1 called for a 25-story building, which would be about 250-feet high. We think that would still be too tall.

    The City Council will have the power to reject the Site 5C when it comes before them shortly. Borough President C. Virginia Fields also has an advisory role under the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure. We urge our local councilmember, Alan Gerson, and Borough President Fields to do everything in their power to convince the council to vote against this plan unless the size is reduced to something significantly less than 250 feet.

    Under the expired Washington Street Urban Renewal Plan restrictions, Resnick agreed to build a 135-foot building with an 18,000 square foot community recreation center. By dawdling for decades, the city is now pushing a building over twice the size with not one more square foot of rec space. Resnick can’t claim post-9/11 economic woes in a hot Tribeca market, particularly now since he will have the benefit of tax-free bonds to build luxury rental apartments.

    As we have said before, we think a building perhaps as high as 175 feet could be acceptable provided that the city and Resnick agree to increase the size of the rec center to 40,000 square feet, the city commits to building a K-8 school in Lower Manhattan quickly, and the city agrees to drastically reduce the size of the proposed residential building across the street at Site 5B.

    There is already too little school space Downtown and with all of the development underway the problem will get worse even if the plans for Sites 5B and 5C stall. The city must not make the same type of urban planning mistakes it made condemning the 5B and 5C land almost half a century ago by allowing the new site plans to go forward without a plan to take care of the school, recreation and open space needs of Lower Manhattan.

    Copyright 2004 Community Media LLC.

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