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Thread: Trump World Tower - 845 United Nations Plaza - Condo - by Costas Kondylis

  1. #46
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Manhattan - South Village


    I pretty much agree with your critique, but you should know that Donald Trump thinks the TWT is great architecture, as do many members of this board.

    Let it go. At least it's tall.

  2. #47


    Trump has built worse.

  3. #48
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY



    I've been reading your posts and I can't help but feel that there is some underlying issue driving you. You started out attacking the International Style. You then moved to attacking Trump. You seem intensely focused on TWT and you are trying to pull the rest of the architectural design of the city in as an example for your argument. I would challenge you to walk down 42nd Street, from end to end, and see if your argument holds up. Precisely because that street has a great concentration of buildings constructed in the last 5 - 8 years

    Perhaps it was reluctantly, but the developers in this city are moving away from the boxes you decrey. In a grid city, everything is going to have to fit on a right-angled lot. However, I would argue that Trump's TWT might be the ending punctuation on an architectural statement that perhaps lasted longer than we would have liked. On the other hand, the adaptation of International Style to residential high rises is a more recent development in New York. Overall, something in your argument is missing the mark and is ringing hollow. Nothing personal - just some forum feedback.

  4. #49

    Default YES, it has a damping system, NO, it does NOT work

    g@tor, I was touched that a citizen of an impoverished but proud nation still recovering from the effects of ideological poisons is concerned about, in two posts no less, whether ultra rich people living in a Donald Trump skyscraper vomit when the wind blows in a manner that must seem mild compared to a fierce Russian winter storm.

    Just kidding. I'm sure you're more interested in engineering.
    Curious, I did a search on your fellow countryman's invention, Sergi Brin's google, and WOW! Did I ever find something interesting. g@tor, this link is 4 u:

    But I must warn you that the language of CIVIL ENGINEERING* MAGAZINE is sometimes so technical, so academically and diplomatically arcane, that even a fluent English speaker could miss the more salient points. So I will translate some of the dryly polite criticisms of Trump World Tower.

    You see, it turns out that Donald Trump and his residents paid VERY DEARLY for the "purity" of their slender, black, internationalist cigarette box pitched 90 stories high.

    "Another prominent structure employing a damping system is the 850 ft (260 m) high Trump World Tower... The building is rectangular in plan and nearly twice as long as it is wide. The principal direction of response was across the narrow face. The response to wind was accentuated by the building's slenderness ratio—the ratio of its height to the width of its narrowest face—which is almost 11. The architectural vision....

    (Translation: The mistaken notion that a Meis van der Rohe black box with Corbusier's rectangular plan stacked 90 stories high STILL represents the ultimate in "good taste")

    limited the aerodynamic modifications that could be employed to control the building accelerations.

    (Translation: Corbusier's slim, rectangular aesthetic anorexia is impractical and unhealthy for a super-tall skyscraper, or a Trump paramour model for that matter.)

    A strong frame underpins the towering structure, but because of the slenderness of the design, the building's response to wind gusts is similar to that of a cantilevered beam.
    Consequently, during strong wind events, significant movement at the top of the building could occur, reflecting higher levels of acceleration than desired. The accelerations determined for the upper occupied floors were found to be beyond the serviceability requirements generally adopted for residential apartments.

    (Translation: Trump, his architects and engineers f****ed up and it is IMPOSSIBLE to ameliorate the sway)

    Conclusion: stacking a slim internationalist glass box 90 stories high LITERALLY makes the super rich residents vomit up their $1000 caviar omelets when the wind blows.

    But here's the final kicker: It probably doesn't matter much because the big secret about most new "Luxury" Manhattan housing is that at any time as many as half of the units aren't even occupied. They simply exist as private personal hotel and party rooms for nonresident, domestic and international ultra rich jet setters for whom it would be infra dig to stay at ANY hotel.

    Typical Luxury "residents" include Saudi and other Arab petro-aires who come for few days to shed their white dresses, party like it's the year 999, Pork infidel models, secretly eat pork, and then barf it on the floor if the occasional noreaster hits. Then it's back to the desert where, after having escaped their oppressive and backward culture, give away money to "charities" that advocate and practice our very destruction. Saudis are big buyers of Trump junk bonds.

    Thus buildings whose design concept originated in proletarian warehouses become 90 story warehouses storing empty vanity.

  5. #50


    Relax. Trump is a Philistine.

  6. #51

    Default Re: YES, it has a damping system, NO, it does NOT work

    Quote Originally Posted by thirduncle
    (Translation: Trump, his architects and engineers f****ed up and it is IMPOSSIBLE to ameliorate the sway)
    If you read the next paragraph in the article, they tell you how the IMPOSSIBLE problem was fixed... And, yes It does work. If you want, I can explain it to you, but you seem to know this CE lingo pretty well....


  7. #52


    SHOULD be against Manhattan zoning laws to build the 6739th homage to Mies Van der Rohe's Black f***ing box.

    The answer to your dilema is to become an architect who designs buildings for developers, then you can school them first hand about their desire to maximize profits and floor area, and convince them that the aesthetic beauty of Manhattan must be paramount in their design choice.

    Wait, I've got it! We should raise the interest rates on bank loans for projects that don't meet aesthetic guidlines.


    (If you think the International Style was dogmatic, wait till thirduncle is the head of the New York City Architectural Aesthetic Approval Board.) :roll:

  8. #53


    Is TWT 900 feet? I thought that it was about 860.

  9. #54


    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik
    Wait, I've got it! We should raise the interest rates on bank loans for projects that don't meet aesthetic guidlines.


    (If you think the International Style was dogmatic, wait till thirduncle is the head of the New York City Architectural Aesthetic Approval Board.) :roll:
    Don't mock. Herbert Muschaump proposed something very similar in his cover story for the Sunday Times Magazine last year. The gyst of it was that West Street would be buried, the air rights over it would be sold, and the money (rather than delivered to the public treasury, or used to pay for the roadwork) would be used to set up an architectural trust fund to be doled out by him and his chums for works of significant architecture in the City. The piece really demonstrated that the Times will print anything.

  10. #55


    chirp.....chirp.....chirp.........anyone know what happened to site and where characters like nyguy and jimgarcia have gone dry high brow witty remarks neccesary

  11. #56


    ....someone get me a violin.

  12. #57


    architectural model last seen at the burning man festival.....

  13. #58

    Default my bad --damping works!

    Andfluff, you are right and I am wrong. Engineering is not my bag. Mea Culpa. I did not read or decode the rest of the story. I had a preconceived conclusion and I thought I had found the smoking gun that would lead me to....a barf joke.

    But the damping DOES work. Jetsetters, hedge fund managers, heirs, it is safe to return! Ad: TWT: Looks like an office on the outside, but inside you can live cozy and sky high class! Discretion assured

    Well, Trump and I settled out of court. He won't pursue eminent domain to kick granny and the family out and I won't send him to an architectural compound. It's just strange that one of the most prolific skyscraper builders dosn't seem to be at all curious about what it is he does. It's the reverse of Marxist theory: The owner is alienated from the product.

  14. #59

    Default Swaying

    2 thirduncle
    Thanks for the answer and interesting link. I've read about that damping system at Citigroup. See it helps. But does it help absolutely? I'd like to hear from person who was there if the vibrations at the top of TWT are not felt absolutely? Or for all that they're felt a bit? And sorry for offtopic, how about swaying in old ones, for example, ESB. Links appreciated.

    And I don't care about ideology and politics. :wink: I just love NYC skyscrapers since I was a child. Guess it was just nature's mistake that I was born here, not in the NYC.

  15. #60

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